Do locomotives have air conditioners?

Do locomotives have AC? Looking at NERAIL pics from this heat wave, made me wonder.

Most newer locomotives (built in the last 10-15 years) have air conditioners; older locos generally don't, unless they were owned by railroads in very hot regions (e.g. the big western Class I roads, and some of the southern roads (NS, FEC, et al).

As a Guilford-related example, when Santa Fe rebuilt their SD24s as SD26s, they added roof-mounted air conditioners to most of them. Some of the SD26s that were purchased by Guilford still had the ACs intact when they began to arrive in New England. I'm pretty sure Guilford removed them, though. They may or may not have been functional when Guilford received them, and they most likely were a pain in the butt to deal with due to issues with leaks and whatnot (a common problem with retrofitted roof-mounted AC units on locomotives).

Another New England-related example, and also Santa Fe-related, are the B23-7s recently purchased by Montreal, Maine & Atlantic. Santa Fe retrofitted those units with rooftop ACs. The ACs were still intact when MMA received the units, but MMA planned to remove them due to the aforementioned issues with leaks (which can cause rust and rot, an even bigger problem).

Here are some photos that show examples of various types of locomotive air conditioners:

A B23-7 with AC mounted on the cab roof

A B40-8 with AC mounted on the cab roof

A GP38-2 with dual AC units mounted on the cab roof -- this is the same type of AC commonly found on RVs (motorhomes)

A C40-8W with factory-installed air conditioner -- it is the large black box just behind the cab. These units are removable for repair/replacement; the reason it is black on this unit is because it was swapped out from a unit with the standard NS black paint scheme.

On newer units the Air Conditioning systems are a neccessity, not a luxury. The computer systems need to be kept cool. The most heat sensitive systems are housed in the cab for this purpose. While it's an added bonus for the crew. On "wide nose" style units, they have complete HVAC systems that take the place of conventional cab heaters on each side of the cab. The plus side is easier upkeep and more room in the cab. The downside is if the heater fails, you lose everything. Often railroads add sidewall heaters, but they are not enough to heat an entire cab. The other downside is you and your conductor have to agree on the tempature as opposed to controlling your own. Older loco's often get roof mounted A/C units but these are strictly for cooling. They do not replace cab mounted heaters.

MOD NOTE, this is really not Guilford Related.

NV290 wrote:MOD NOTE, this is really not Guilford Related.

Agreed; thread will be moved to the General Discussion of Locomotives forum.

NV290 wrote:On newer units the Air Conditioning systems are a neccessity, not a luxury. The computer systems need to be kept cool. The most heat sensitive systems are housed in the cab for this purpose. While it's an added bonus for the crew. On "wide nose" style units, they have complete HVAC systems that take the place of conventional cab heaters on each side of the cab. The plus side is easier upkeep and more room in the cab. The downside is if the heater fails, you lose everything. Often railroads add sidewall heaters, but they are not enough to heat an entire cab. The other downside is you and your conductor have to agree on the tempature as opposed to controlling your own. Older loco's often get roof mounted A/C units but these are strictly for cooling. They do not replace cab mounted heaters.

MOD NOTE, this is really not Guilford Related.

Sorry I disagree, the electronics are not airconditioned just ventilated, If your argument held true, a locomotive with AC not working would be dead, which is not true.
On any GE for example the Electronics are in non AC compartments and the recommendation is to have AC turned off when not having the cab occupied.

DutchRailnut wrote:Sorry I disagree, the electronics are not airconditioned just ventilated, If your argument held true, a locomotive with AC not working would be dead, which is not true.
On any GE for example the Electronics are in non AC compartments and the recommendation is to have AC turned off when not having the cab occupied.

Well the info is right out of the horses mouth at EMD. The FIRE and/or ICE computer system is housed IN the cab and when the unit is set up as a leader and the screens are turned on, it's kept at operating tempature through the use of cab climate controls. When the unit is trailing position, the screens are off and the computer system used for a lead setup is not running. Sure you could use a unit with defective A/C. It's not desireable for the electronics or the crew, but it can be done. That same can be said for DOZENS of locomotive defects that still allow a locomotive to be used.

The electronics you are talking about in Non A/C cooled compartments are not the computers i am talking about. You are talking about control equipment housed in the electric lockers. Capacitors, GTO's, fuel injection computers, traction control systems, etc. I am refering to cab electronic equipment that is mainly active while a locomotive is setup as a lead unit. This includes certain Cab Signal equipment as well. Video screens, power supplies for cab equipment, Cab integration units, etc often have minimal self contained cooling systems, if any at all. They rely on the cab being a sutible tempature during operation to maintain proper function. On the other side of the spectrum is that fact that these electronics often produce alot of heat of their own further adding to the need for climate control. I have had video screens on Dash 9'S shutdown with overheat messages. In fact, when i asked if any railroads even order wide nose units with digital cabs without A/C and they said no, because it's not an option. It's standard because of the electronics that are mounted in the cab.

In a training position, climate control is a non issue as most, if not all cab electronics are not used.

One other advantage with airconditioners , is that they act as dehumidifiers to some degree . which would be alos benefical to computer controllers etc .

NV290 wrote: In a trailing position, climate control is a non issue as most, if not all cab electronics are not used.

In trailing all electronics are used, just the screens are dark and cab signal apperatus would be off, so again I believe your statement to be rumor and not based on facts.
No warnings exist in any of the EMD manuals I have, and the GE electronics on the P32acdm are about as complex as they get.

DutchRailnut wrote:

NV290 wrote: In a trailing position, climate control is a non issue as most, if not all cab electronics are not used.

In trailing all electronics are used, just the screens are dark and cab signal apperatus would be off, so again I believe your statement to be rumor and not based on facts.
No warnings exist in any of the EMD manuals I have, and the GE electronics on the P32acdm are about as complex as they get.

Whatever. I have better things to do then post rumours. I never said i read it in a manual. It was from an EMD rep. And in the trailing position many of the controls are not on. If you want to keep arguing. Call EMD or GE. Maybe they have time. Just because you don't see a warning in a manual does not mean an issue does not exsist. Modern electronics are sensitive to heat. And computers produce more heat when in use. You ever notice how hot a laptop gets when using it versus it sitting on your desk? That heat is removed with fans. Fans that vent it to the surrounding area. Those computers are going to be able to stay cooler by being mounted in a location where humans are because humans prefer a cooler enviornment as well. Ever work with an AC6000? They have an obnoxiously loud blower in the bottom of the electronics rack the blows HOT air from that rack into the cab. It's a blower designed to suck the climate controlled air into the rack. Many of the communications and signal bungalows i pass nowadays have A/C units as well becauase they have LOTS of electronics which do not like heat.

I deal with pretty much every type of modern freight locomotive out there on an almost daily basis. Not just one or two. I have a dual mode P32 manual as well. While it is a complex unit, SD70Ace's with DP systems as well as many of the other modern 6 axle power have just as complicated systems. All modern power is feature heavy.

But everyone is free to have their own opinions.

Who needs A/C?!! Notice the open nose door on this Canadian Nat'l SD50M(?) as it crosses the Parry Harbor (Ontario) trestle at speed on a blistering hot July afternoon.

Brings to mind also a somewhat humorous radio exchange I overheard on another hot summer day a few years ago. Apparently a locomotive scooped into the cab thru an open nose door a "large black bird" (a turkey vulture?) that had been dining on roadkill between the rails.

Yuck...

One thing we can all agree on is that computers generate a lot of heat, and that heat has to go somewhere... usually the cab of the locomotive. The cab gets hot enough anyway even if there are no computers involved; add a few computers and the cab becomes an oven, making AC a necessity, not a luxury.

[quote="FarmallBob"]Who needs A/C?!! Notice the open nose door on this Canadian Nat'l SD50M(?) as it crosses the Parry Harbor (Ontario) trestle at speed on a blistering hot July afternoon.

Brings to mind also a somewhat humorous radio exchange I overheard on another hot summer day a few years ago. Apparently a locomotive scooped into the cab thru an open nose door a "large black bird" (a turkey vulture?) that had been dining on roadkill between the rails.

Yuck...

The open nose door works great, IF your going fast enough. I have had long drags up the B&A where i could never get enough speed to get any decent cooling. Thankfully the A/C worked. And of course, sitting still at stop signals offers no forced cooling. When we get older power (Older Dash 8's and 7 series as well as older EMD's, having the nose door open is really up the conductor. I feel kind of bad asking him to open his door at 50MPH so i can get a breeze!

Also, an open door is not really something you want to have in the event of a collision at a grade crossing.

A roof mounted AC unit does not have to be a huge problem if the unit is properly maintained in the first place. All of the
older GP-40, SD-40 and GP-38 models (some dash 2) on the Florida East Coast have roof mounted AC units. It apparently
works good down here and if the AC does not work, the locomotive is trail only and enroute to the shop for repairs.
The key to an AC unit whether it be newer and built in or an older roof mounted AC on an older engine is like everything else,
the word "maintenance".
When I was working between Selkirk and Buffalo, I was very glad to get a unit (any unit) with an operable AC whether it be
a roof mounted in an old SP engine or a new wide cab with it part of the original unit. It makes a big difference so far as
healthy working conditions, preventing fatigue and being able to run with the windows closed lessens the chance of being
struck by a thrown rock or stung by a hornet both of which I have experienced with the cab window open over the years.
Noel Weaver

Regarding the "AC is needed for the computers" discussion...

I know a certain Class One that paid $25,000 to REMOVE Air Conditioning from a new locomotive order. Their reasoning was it'll cost more than $25k to maintain the AC over the service life of the locomotive, so just spend the money on removing this standard equipment and save money in the long run. Well, lo and behold, after about three years, their computer screens started to fail due to heat. The screens were cooking themselves during the summer months, especially in direct sunlight, when leading a consist. So POOF ... screens go black, train stops, mainline gridlocked, and Class One calls builder angry that their product is failing on the road. And the locomotive builder tells said Class One "...read the service agreement you signed. Screen failures ARE NOT covered under warranty in the event the Air Conditioning is inoperable/removed..." So the Class One that's the subject of this story is now replacing all the screens from that order as a routine scheduled item ... out of their own pocketbook.