Derailment Indianapolis-1/6/08

From the Illiana yahoogroups email list...

>
> At 08:07 AM 1/6/2008, trainchaser@... wrote:
> >Channel 8 news at 5:00 a.m. in Indianapolis is reporting a head on
> >crash near Girls school road in Indianapolis one train was Buffalo
to Avon...
>
> WTHR 13 is now reporting that the second train was a runaway cut of
> cars that rolled out of Avon Yard. I have heard rumors of this
> happening in the past (Avon is at a higher elevation than downtown
> Indianapolis).


WTHR 13 is now reporting that the "runaway" cut consisted of 112
cars. That sounds like a complete train parked in the Receiving or
Departure Yards got away. CSX is reportedly not saying much about the
accident. The media is reporting hazmat leaks of diesel fuel from the
locomotives (one of which appears to be partially in the ditch) and
leaks of soybean oil.

> I have heard rumors of this
> happening in the past (Avon is at a higher elevation than downtown
> Indianapolis).
>
>

Back in the Conrail days, CR kept one of the switches at MY lined into a stub
track that led directly to a large dirt mound. One night in a December past,
a cold front swept through, creating high wind gusts. An Elkhart train had
been made up and left in the departure yard. The wind blew it out of the yard,
past MY, and into the dirt mound where it piled up.

I don't recall the track layout at MY very well, but before someone suggests
that perhaps CSX hadn't left the switch lined for the dirt mound, I'd suppose
it's possible that the cars could have rolled down from the main or controlled
siding, bypassing the switch in question.

Units involved 7807-8203 (latter per Trainorders.com). Unknown if any R/C jobs working out there or involved at this time.

heres what i have found

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... L/80106001

OR THIS... (SOME GREAT PHOTOS)

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... S/80107025

I love how the media takes the "big, bad railroad hell-bent on destruction" approach...but, then again, they always seem ready to point the finger.

when i worked at avon, hot cars from the hump frequently ended up in the dirtpile at the end of the two puller tracks, but those were just a couple of cars at a time. i'd wager a string of cars this big rolled out from the receiving yard... sometimes the crews don't tie their trains down too good, like they're taught (csx brakes), then the car dept. comes along & bleeds everything off save four or five on the east end... well, it doesn't take much to send those cars all the way to town. also the receiving yard is back away from the towers & general yard action... unlike the departure tracks, which are typically on air & swarming with men & radios.

More from the email list. I posted this mostly because it notes injuries to the crew on the train that was hit. Looks like nothing life-threatening, but prayers for them just the same.

>
> Drove by the area on the way to church this morning. Looks like
> point of impact was east of Girls school road as nothing visible at
> the grade crossing or west of it. I am skeptical about a 112 car
> train, unless they already pulled its underailed cars back into
> Avon. I heard 21 cars from somebody at church.

After the dust had settled I'm sure they pulled the cars that weren't
derailed back into the Receiving yard so they could use MY and move
trains. I'm guessing all moves will be going around the
Crawfordsville to downtown.

A trickle of trains are moving through the area. Q111 and Q131 made
it through and I'd wager that they went around the Crawfordsville.
Q670 was on the main waiting to head to Cincy. There was a parade of
trains waiting to go east in the departure yard.

My thoughts with the engineer and conductor. Engineer suffered
severe injuries to his legs and the conductor was pretty 'beaten up'.

I'm curious if anyone tried to warn the crew at Girls School? The
cut would have set off the occupancy lights on the board in Tower One
as the cut started to roll out. My guess is the car department
didn't apply any additional hand brakes to the cut when they bled it
off in preparation for humping. I've brought larger trains into the
yard that never rolled out. Of course most cuts get 3 hand brakes at
either end.

There is a power switch off the south runner that ends in the dirt,
but I'm not sure of its operating capacities. I'm not sure if there
isn't a route lined through to the S. Runner if the switch 'opens'
for mainline protection or not.

While I hate to see my co-workers injured, this collision happening
at Girls School probably averted greater catastrophy downtown if all
112 cars made it down there. I'm guessing there would be a general
pile up near the RCA dome or near IU tower. That cut would have
generated some tremendous momentum on its way down there.

I'm waiting with baited breath to see what the knee-jerk reaction to
this incident from the Operating Rules Department will be. Someone
made a mistake and didn't follow the rules and proceedures in place.
The typical reaction is to make more rules and proceedures.......

Practice Safe CSX

[i]I'm curious if anyone tried to warn the crew at Girls School? The
cut would have set off the occupancy lights on the board in Tower One
as the cut started to roll out.[/i]


We're being told in our job briefings that someone alerted the dispatcher of what was going on and he immediately had a heart attack and was unable to alert the crew. Not sure how much of that you can believe but that is what we are being told.

The way CSX handles things these days, I'm sure the end of his career flashed before his eyes.. I'd probably have a heart attack too. Here's a couple more posts - some of this is just guys theorizing, so far I haven't seen much in the way of official reports on this.

--- In [email protected], Bob Burns <crblue_> wrote:

> 1. The article says that the westbound train hit the cut of cars
that rolled out of the yard. I had a picture in my mind that the
westbound was stopped on the main and the cut rolled into the
westbound. Was the westbound moving at the time of the impact?

I don't know if the train was moving or not. I tend to believe they
were not moving. The went by downtown around 0255 in the morning.
It shows them taking MY at 0328, which I believe to be the cut of
caras tricking the CSX computer. I believe they were holding at Girl
School as they should have been into the yard in the 35 minutes
between their OS's. Where the collision happened is where trains
park while waiting to get into the yard. I find it unlikely that it
would have happened there if they were moving.

I'm thinking they were sitting on #1 track with the switches at MY
lined for them to come in, but the yard wasn't ready for them. This
is why the cut rolled out and right into them.

Again, I hate to see co-workers hurt, but its probably best it
happened at Girl School Road. While there are houses around there,
the tracks are in a cut and it appears the wreck was entirely
contained in the cut. I can't imagine the out come if it had made it
downtown.

Looking at the photos the loose cut of cars had already generated
tremendous momentum. The AEI reader a Bridgeport Rd picked up the
move. When it went by there, it was going 20 mph. I'm not sure if
that is the entry speed over the reader, or the exit speed. Suffice
to say it hit going at least 20 mph.

> 2. The article says that no cars on the westbound train derailed.
> Given that at least one of the westbound's locomotives ended up
> sitting crosswise on the main, it would seem that something might
> have happened to the first few cars of the westbound.

Just based on the photos it appears that a few cars from Q263
derailed, but that a majority of the cars were from the cut coming
out of the yard. It appears most accordianed after impacting the
locomotives. It appears the locomotive took the brunt of the impact
also. Probably explains why the crew had the injuries they did. At
least the wreck didn't pile up on top of them. Also a good thing
they had a wide cab locomotive. The front of the cab took the impact
square on, instead of a standard cab locomotive where the nose would
act as a battering ram and allow the cars to come around the nose and
impact the cab.

> If you can't say or don't know, that's OK. The answers quoted in
the article from CSX spokesman Gary Sease are pretty terse and
non-committal. I can understand that the railroad is reluctant to
make any details public until they've investigated the accident.

PR people would make good politicians, they answer questions *very
carefully*.

Practice Safe CSX

On my way home this evening, I heard Y129-07 approach IJ westbound on
#2 Main and Y234-07 approach IJ westbound on #1 Main. They both
stopped for red signals at IJ. Apparently, they both then got
permission from the trainmaster holding the track warrants for the
derailment work area to enter his limits. Then both trains were
talked by the red signals by the IC Dispatcher. Y129 was going to
proceed to the work area. W234 was going to wait at Lynhurst Drive
for instructions.

Also, I heard Y250-07 getting permission from the IC Dispatcher to
leave Avon Yard eastbound at MY. They were to pick up a trainmaster
at MY and then head east on #2 Main to grab a cut of cars to bring
back into the yard. Later, it sounded like they were getting this cut
off the North Hunt Connection. About the same time, Z550 (LIRC CA)
was coming off the South Hunt Connection onto #1 Main headed into the
Receiving Yard.

Dealing with a derailment with all of the special moves and re-routes
sure keeps everybody busy.

A 2:48pm update to The Indianapolis Star's web site says Girls School
Road between Rockville Road and Morris Street is still closed to
through traffic. The Star also reports that the Wayne Branch of the
Indianapolis Marion County Public Library, which is located right at
Girls School Road and the CSX tracks, is closed. The library parking
lot is being used to stage clean-up equipment. If you go to the
Star's web site (www.indystar.com), there's a link on the home page
to a series of photos of the wreck. The article makes is sound like
they have a good handle on the diesel fuel and soybean oil leaks. Now
the big concern is the ammonium nitrate fertilizer spilled out of one
of the covered hoppers.

Bob...


Only on CSX would you refer to your dispatchers in a way to have one whos radio call/desk name can be confused with some other railroad (the IC dispatcher) ...

Here's a link that was forwarded to me showing the local Fire Dept.'s rescue operations and after-math of the incident.

lvrr325 wrote:Only on CSX would you refer to your dispatchers in a way to have one whos radio call/desk name can be confused with some other railroad (the IC dispatcher) ...

How about the NE Dispatcher, which could very easily be taken as "ANY DISPATCHER", lol.