Derailment at Jamaica, hourly service

From LIRR


"As of 7:30PM:

Local Westbound Service Between Jamaica & Penn Station Customers:

Due to a trackcar derailment at Jamaica, local westbound service between Jamaica and Penn Station serving Woodside, Kew Gardens and Forest Hills is operating hourly instead of the regular half hourly service."

Service Has Been Restored

Two derailments yesterday

Work trains at Hall and at Richmond Hill Lead.

This afternoon a yard move derailed in a yard in Brooklyn.

Another very minor derailment in Farmingdale this morning.

That's five this week -- me thinks this is a record!

Does the cold weather have anything to do with these derailments?

It may have been a cause for one or 2. After all, the rails(including 3rd rail) do contract in the cold like we've been having, right?(isn't that what caused the problem on the Babylon/Long Beach/Far Rock/WH lines that other day).

So if that's the case, I guess the tracks could gap and get misaligned.

Sorry, it was likely human error, though investigations are not complete.

Hey Clem

You call it human error and you are very much correct!
The crane that derailed Three times (twice in Jay and also on the Richmond Hill Lead) was found to have a defective truck and the wrong size wheels.
So to call it a human error is 100% correct
Humans designed it and humans built it and humans put the wrong wheels on it.


Really, when you go really far back, aren't all of the troubles in the world caused by human error???????????
100% human error but not "Crew error"
All crew members are at work with no time lost

As for the derailment in Brooklyn and Farmingdale
I have heard nothing of these

utubrother wrote:Hey Clem

You call it human error and you are very much correct!
The crane that derailed Three times (twice in Jay and also on the Richmond Hill Lead) was found to have a defective truck and the wrong size wheels.
So to call it a human error is 100% correct
Humans designed it and humans built it and humans put the wrong wheels on it.


Really, when you go really far back, aren't all of the troubles in the world caused by human error???????????
100% human error but not "Crew error"
All crew members are at work with no time lost

UTUBRO, even though it was not said, I also got the impression that by human error the implication was crew error. But since I could not be sure what was meant I kept quite even though I new there was a problem with the Crane. Clem, my apologies if that was not what you meant. My opinion is jaded due to the RRs apparent policy of " The crew is guilty until proven otherwise, and if otherwise is proven lets try to blame them anyway."

No, not picking on crews, Blue, but as unfortunate as it is, a good majority of derailments are caused by crew error. The crew is the last stop in the chain of events and as such is expected to catch everyone else's mistakes and prevent the event from happening. This isn't always fair, but many times if a crew had acted differently, the derailment would not have happened.

I am not aware of the outcome of all these investigations. In Farmingdale, an engineer passed over an open derail.

VD Yard is a mess in its own right, and derailments there, if not involving the infamous derail are usually caused by engineering (track) problems. Sometimes, unfortunately, excessive speed also comes to play as it would wherever track structure is poor.

Yes, crews are blamed for perhaps a good 40 percent of derailments. The other 60 percent are usually track related with a small minority of equipment problems contributing.

It's interesting to note too that seniority plays a role in these mistakes. When a conductor or engineer hits a bumper block or runs over a derail or throws a derail under a train or runs through a switch, those responsible are usually either (a) new employees or (b) employees with 15 - 20 years. When they get themselved killed (luckly few on the LI) they usually fall into the 15-20 year range.

That tells a lesson that should be noted. Pay attention and you can save yourself some money, possibly an injury, and better yet the System-wide embarassment.

Didn't mean to point fingers. Just the way it is -- on the LI and other railroads, too.

Clem

clemual i thought the conductor would be the only guy on the street. a conductor told me that they r responsible for everything and if the engineer hits a bumper block or goes through a stop signal the conductor goes on the street not the engineer. you said the person responsible for the trouble goes out. what gives?

La-Qwanda, you must be believing that stuff the conductor's union told you when you signed up for union dues check-off. Unfortunately, some of the new and less informed members of your craft feel they have some supervisory authority over locomotive engineers.

This is just plain nonsense.

The engineer and conductor have joint responsibility for adherance to the operating rules and for timely operation. In many cases, these responsibilities would also be shared among other qualified crew members and even other qualified employees on the train.

The engineer is responsible for the technical operation of the train, for His engine and for the safe operation of the mechanical portions of its conveyance.

The conductor is responsible for matters concerning his passengers, such as the train's spotting, cars open to passengers, revenue collection, etc.

When it is said that the Conductor is in general charge of the train, it does not mean the conductor supervises the engineer. A conductor is not qualified to supervise an engine service employee, nor does he have the contractual nor statutory authority to do so.

The law requires that each Carrier issue a list of qualified engine service supervisors. These men are qualified engineers. Every engineer is a qualified conductor, but no conductor on the LIRR is a qualified engineer.

A better understanding of the shared and separate responsibilities of crew members may be gleaned from old rule books, which better describe it than does the current book.

No conductor ever did time when an engineer hit a bumper block, unless of course if the conductor was on the end that did the hitting and failed to control the movement. The only way a conductor would be responsible for an engineer's passing a signal would be if the conductor was on the lead end (not) controlling the movement, or if he was with the engineer when they both observed and failed to regard the signal aspect.

It seems these days many new employees are looking for respect without earning it. Study, learn your rules, get out and learn the road and the equipment and you'll never have to demand respect.

You will have earned it.

Clem

La-Qwanda, unfortunately there is an element on the RR that tries to elevate themselves by refusing to listen to the Rules Dept., Management and the Trial Office regarding the issue you mentioned. People hear what they want to hear and if you want to be "boss" so bad, your not going to listen to your employer when they tell you that you are not. In the meantime, they are being demeaning to another craft (Engrs) who worked just as hard to get their job and share the same responsibilities and have the same concerns about not making mistakes.

Everone has a job to do and just because a Conductor can order you around as a Brakeman or Collector does not mean he can order around the Engineer. The Railroad views the C&E relationship as a partnership that is to work as a team. Most guys are alright and work together and never have any issues. But the few times when there is a conflict with someone who has been led to believe he's the "boss", the aftermath is that he ends up with egg on his face, because the truth is the truth.

As Clemuel said, the old rule books are much clearer on the subject. Wording has been condensed over the years for easier reading but the meaning has never changed and our procedures and rule interpretations are rooted in those old rule books.

Liquid I agree with what you have said regarding the team work aspect of the relationship between Condr and Engr. I view it as we work together. And yes there are some Condrs who overblow the "general charge of the train issue" However lets be accurate in our posting with out engaging in a pissing contest. We both know of at least 1 Engr who has ended up with as you put it egg on his face for not platforming the train as the Condr wanted. So it can both ways.