"rail10"
Does metrorail uses conductors/guards to assist the motorman/driver?
No. Metrorail is OPTO (One Person Train Operation). The system was designed that way and there is no provision for an optional conductor. All of the station in subway, on elevateds and most of the surface stations are flat (technically 0.035% grade for drainage) and straight with exception of two surface station platforms that have less then 2 degree curves on them. The train operators have a clear view of the full length of the platform for closing doors.
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conductors
- Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.
Moderators: mtuandrew, therock, Robert Paniagua
by Robert Paniagua
And also, no stations have TV monitors aiming at the rear of the train, since as John said, no curve (sharp) like NYCTA and here in MBTA Boston.
But the trains are very long, so I think they may have to place a plainclothes/uniformed Public Safety Officer to ride either the sixth car (if it's an 8-car train) or fourth car of the train (if 6 cars) to monitor riders towards the rear for added security.
But the trains are very long, so I think they may have to place a plainclothes/uniformed Public Safety Officer to ride either the sixth car (if it's an 8-car train) or fourth car of the train (if 6 cars) to monitor riders towards the rear for added security.
by Sand Box John
"Robert Paniagua"And also, no stations have TV monitors aiming at the rear of the train, since as John said, no curve (sharp) like NYCTA and here in MBTA Boston.
But the trains are very long, so I think they may have to place a plainclothes/uniformed Public Safety Officer to ride either the sixth car (if it's an 8-car train) or fourth car of the train (if 6 cars) to monitor riders towards the rear for added security.
The trains are no longer then a NYC transit 10 car train, 600‘ (182.88m). Routine patrol by the transit police takes care of the security issue. No need to assigned a second WMATA employee to ride each train.
But the trains are very long, so I think they may have to place a plainclothes/uniformed Public Safety Officer to ride either the sixth car (if it's an 8-car train) or fourth car of the train (if 6 cars) to monitor riders towards the rear for added security.
The trains are no longer then a NYC transit 10 car train, 600‘ (182.88m). Routine patrol by the transit police takes care of the security issue. No need to assigned a second WMATA employee to ride each train.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
by Robert Paniagua
Oh Ok, I see, except that WMATA does run an occasional 8-car train on the Orange Line, but as you said, ther is no need for the second man on board. It also saves money, and the MTPD/PS can also monitor trains from the platforms.
by Sand Box John
"Robert Paniagua"
Oh Ok, I see, except that WMATA does run an occasional 8-car train on the Orange Line, but as you said, ther is no need for the second man on board. It also saves money, and the MTPD/PS can also monitor trains from the platforms.
See post in the train length thread for 8 car train assignments.
Labor costs was also one of the consideration that was used in the decision to go with OPTO.
Oh Ok, I see, except that WMATA does run an occasional 8-car train on the Orange Line, but as you said, ther is no need for the second man on board. It also saves money, and the MTPD/PS can also monitor trains from the platforms.
See post in the train length thread for 8 car train assignments.
Labor costs was also one of the consideration that was used in the decision to go with OPTO.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
by Robert Paniagua
Sand Box John wrote:Labor costs was also one of the consideration that was used in the decision to go with OPTO.I see, now that makes sense, especially with the technology that WMATA posseses wich New York and Boston don't.
by Head-end View
If they're running 8 car trains, maybe they should have a conductor in the middle of the train to operate the doors. Eight cars (or even six) is a long way for the operator at the front to see down a crowded platform, even if it's completely straight. Have there been any incidents where anyone's been caught in a door and dragged by one of the rear cars, where maybe the operator didn't see what was happening?
by Sand Box John
"Head-end View"
If they're running 8 car trains, maybe they should have a conductor in the middle of the train to operate the doors. Eight cars (or even six) is a long way for the operator at the front to see down a crowded platform, even if it's completely straight.
The platform length is 600' (182.88m). That is twice the length on a NFL football field minus the end zones. If an operator can’t see what going on over that distance clearly, he either has poor vision or has not updated the prescription on his glasses.
Have there been any incidents where anyone's been caught in a door and dragged by one of the rear cars, where maybe the operator didn't see what was happening?
I don’t know if it happen near the rear of the train, but the most resent one was the result of faulty equipment on the then new CAF cars giving a all door closed command when in fact the doors were not all closed.
The threshold between doors being closed and not being closed is less then an 1/8" (3.175mm).
If they're running 8 car trains, maybe they should have a conductor in the middle of the train to operate the doors. Eight cars (or even six) is a long way for the operator at the front to see down a crowded platform, even if it's completely straight.
The platform length is 600' (182.88m). That is twice the length on a NFL football field minus the end zones. If an operator can’t see what going on over that distance clearly, he either has poor vision or has not updated the prescription on his glasses.
Have there been any incidents where anyone's been caught in a door and dragged by one of the rear cars, where maybe the operator didn't see what was happening?
I don’t know if it happen near the rear of the train, but the most resent one was the result of faulty equipment on the then new CAF cars giving a all door closed command when in fact the doors were not all closed.
The threshold between doors being closed and not being closed is less then an 1/8" (3.175mm).
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
by Robert Paniagua
Sand Box John wrote:The platform length is 600' (182.88m). That is twice the length on a NFL football field minus the end zones. If an operator can’t see what going on over that distance clearly, he either has poor vision or has not updated the prescription on his glasses.Yeah, and that means they shouldn't be riding the train until they improve their prescription for safety so that they can clearly see down the 600ft Platforms.
FYI The MBTA Red Line Platform lengths are 420', since they only do 6 car trains that are 69' 3" long.
by Head-end View
Well Sand-box, apparently the Transit Authority in at least one major system disagrees with you. In New York City, the train and platform lengths are similar, (8, 75 ft. cars or 10, 60 ft cars) and they have the conductor at the mid-point in the train so they only have to see 300 ft in each direction. They are talking about eliminating conductors on some trains, but they are going to install TV cameras on the platform at the train operator's stopping location so he can monitor the whole length of the platform effectively. Now rush hour crowds on the platforms are almost as bad in Wash. D.C. as they are in NYC, so if NYC thinks platform visibility is an issue, maybe WMATA should too.
by Sand Box John
"Head-end View"
Well Sand-box, apparently the Transit Authority in at least one major system disagrees with you. In New York City, the train and platform lengths are similar, (8, 75 ft. cars or 10, 60 ft cars) and they have the conductor at the mid-point in the train so they only have to see 300 ft in each direction. They are talking about eliminating conductors on some trains, but they are going to install TV cameras on the platform at the train operator's stopping location so he can monitor the whole length of the platform effectively. Now rush hour crowds on the platforms are almost as bad in Wash. D.C. as they are in NYC, so if NYC thinks platform visibility is an issue, maybe WMATA should too.
The NYCTA and its predecessors have been running that railroad with conductors for more the 100 years. Labor has balked at OPTO at every turn sense CBTC was proposed. Labor believe OPTO would compromise safety. To a certain extent I agree, however one the other reason labor has protested OPTO is loss of jobs.
I have pointed out the difference between New York City Subway and WMATA metrorail, namely that metrorail platforms are straight and flat. Where as, many platforms on the New York City Subway have vertical and or horizontal curves on them. Visibility on metrorail platforms is not an issue.
I will also note that the entire WMATA metrorail fleet would have to be modified to accommodate a mid train conductors position. The way the rolling stock is configured now, door can only be controlled from the train operators cab.
Well Sand-box, apparently the Transit Authority in at least one major system disagrees with you. In New York City, the train and platform lengths are similar, (8, 75 ft. cars or 10, 60 ft cars) and they have the conductor at the mid-point in the train so they only have to see 300 ft in each direction. They are talking about eliminating conductors on some trains, but they are going to install TV cameras on the platform at the train operator's stopping location so he can monitor the whole length of the platform effectively. Now rush hour crowds on the platforms are almost as bad in Wash. D.C. as they are in NYC, so if NYC thinks platform visibility is an issue, maybe WMATA should too.
The NYCTA and its predecessors have been running that railroad with conductors for more the 100 years. Labor has balked at OPTO at every turn sense CBTC was proposed. Labor believe OPTO would compromise safety. To a certain extent I agree, however one the other reason labor has protested OPTO is loss of jobs.
I have pointed out the difference between New York City Subway and WMATA metrorail, namely that metrorail platforms are straight and flat. Where as, many platforms on the New York City Subway have vertical and or horizontal curves on them. Visibility on metrorail platforms is not an issue.
I will also note that the entire WMATA metrorail fleet would have to be modified to accommodate a mid train conductors position. The way the rolling stock is configured now, door can only be controlled from the train operators cab.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.
by octr202
Sand Box John wrote:I have pointed out the difference between New York City Subway and WMATA metrorail, namely that metrorail platforms are straight and flat. Where as, many platforms on the New York City Subway have vertical and or horizontal curves on them. Visibility on metrorail platforms is not an issue.Not to mention that the other limiting factor in a lot of older stations on the four "old style" subway systems (Boston, NYC, Phila., Chicago) is also the columns at many stations which limit the amount of visible platform area from the train.
I will also note that the entire WMATA metrorail fleet would have to be modified to accommodate a mid train conductors position. The way the rolling stock is configured now, door can only be controlled from the train operators cab.
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17008
Being able to see the entire platform, versus a two or three foot wide strip makes the job much easier.
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?20958
Wondering if I'll see the Western Route double-tracking finished before I retire...
Photo: Melbourne W7 No. 1019 on Route 78, Bridge & Church Streets, Richmond, Victoria. 10/21/2010
Photo: Melbourne W7 No. 1019 on Route 78, Bridge & Church Streets, Richmond, Victoria. 10/21/2010
by Sand Box John
quote="octr202"
Not to mention that the other limiting factor in a lot of older stations on the four "old style" subway systems (Boston, NYC, Phila., Chicago) is also the columns at many stations which limit the amount of visible platform area from the train.
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17008
Being able to see the entire platform, versus a two or three foot wide strip makes the job much easier.
http://mysite.verizon.net/cambronj/wmat ... C_0139.JPG
I don’t think the columns are that big on an issue. I also don't believe being able to see beyond two or three feet away from the side of the train is a big deal either. The passenger making there way to the stairs and escalators obstructs the view down the length of the platform as much as the line of columns does. The only difference is the column don't move.
Not to mention that the other limiting factor in a lot of older stations on the four "old style" subway systems (Boston, NYC, Phila., Chicago) is also the columns at many stations which limit the amount of visible platform area from the train.
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?17008
Being able to see the entire platform, versus a two or three foot wide strip makes the job much easier.
http://mysite.verizon.net/cambronj/wmat ... C_0139.JPG
I don’t think the columns are that big on an issue. I also don't believe being able to see beyond two or three feet away from the side of the train is a big deal either. The passenger making there way to the stairs and escalators obstructs the view down the length of the platform as much as the line of columns does. The only difference is the column don't move.
John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.