Concrete Ties

[quote="Ken W2KBCan't speak to NJT but the Black River and Western installed many of these some years ago in a cooperative effort with the manufacturer. Many of them have split, so were not particularity successful, and I believe are no longer made. There are several next to the Ringoes, NJ passenger platform if anyone is interested in seeing them. In recent years the BR&W has installed wooden ties. I believe that concrete ties have displaced any further development of the composites.[/quote]
It is possible as the technology improves and the durability issue gets resolved, you may see a resurgence of composite ties. I believe they are still made. And as long as they are more cost effective than concrete.

Concrete ties do require careful attention to good drainage. I'm not an expert on ties either, but the mud that is pumped usually occurs as the passing trains grind the ballast down, creating tiny rock fragments that over a long time are ground into mud. It occurs to me that once concrete ties start shifting with passing trains, they would probably abrade the rock much faster than wood ties do.

There was a presentation at my office a couple years ago on different kinds of ties, and composite ties then were still being worked on - the splitting problem was still an issue at the time. I think composite ties will eventually be made reliable and economical (at least for some installations) if someone continues to work on them.

Incidentally, there are also steel railroad ties made but with rather low market share: http://www.narstco.com/

142 Fan: Speaking of composite ties - look here: www.tietek.com
I know for example the LIRR is testing them intermingled with wood ties
on the Port Jefferson Branch near Cold Spring Harbor and Huntington.
If you look hard they can be easy to spot...Has NJT used any?
MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:142 Fan: Speaking of composite ties - look here: http://www.tietek.com
I know for example the LIRR is testing them intermingled with wood ties
on the Port Jefferson Branch near Cold Spring Harbor and Huntington.
If you look hard they can be easy to spot...Has NJT used any?
MACTRAXX

Not that I know of. From the train thety look just like concrete ties, but I could be wrong.

MACTRAXX wrote:142 Fan: Speaking of composite ties - look here: http://www.tietek.com
I know for example the LIRR is testing them intermingled with wood ties
on the Port Jefferson Branch near Cold Spring Harbor and Huntington.
If you look hard they can be easy to spot...Has NJT used any?
MACTRAXX

On the Western end, all I have seen on Transit are either concrete or wooden ties. But I think that eventually it will be either concrete or composite or both as the wooden ties with creasote may become a thing of the past for environmental reasons. Who knows what time will bring.

Has there been any effort put into chocolate ties?

Matt Johnson wrote:Has there been any effort put into chocolate ties?

Yes there was. They tried a 500 ft section out by Mars in Hackettstown but the crazy railfans and towns folk ate them

Matt Johnson wrote:Has there been any effort put into chocolate ties?

I don't think Chocolate ties would have ever made it to the working area. CSX would have dumped them on a siding after a misroute and in the weeks they sat they would have melted. Unless of course they where encased in a hard shell like M&M's. Melts in the ground, not in transit. </corny>

AIR, following damage from a Winter storm a few years ago, the town of Sea Girt - and I think Spring Lake - went with composite boards on their respective boardwalks. In addition to longevity, these planks are very smooth, attractive and may hold more strongly versus mother nature....no splinters in one's feet either !

PARailWiz wrote:Concrete ties do require careful attention to good drainage. I'm not an expert on ties either, but the mud that is pumped usually occurs as the passing trains grind the ballast down, creating tiny rock fragments that over a long time are ground into mud. It occurs to me that once concrete ties start shifting with passing trains, they would probably abrade the rock much faster than wood ties do.

There was a presentation at my office a couple years ago on different kinds of ties, and composite ties then were still being worked on - the splitting problem was still an issue at the time. I think composite ties will eventually be made reliable and economical (at least for some installations) if someone continues to work on them.

Incidentally, there are also steel railroad ties made but with rather low market share: http://www.narstco.com/

not to drag up a 3+ month old thread but..... I think the reason concrete ties create more mud then wood has to do with what you mentioned as well as them being so hard the ballast can't grip the sides. In a wood tie the sharp corners of the ballast can dig in and grip the tie preventing ( or at least hindering ) movement concrete ties with their very hard sides would just slide past the ballast ultimately leading to more up and down movement and more pumping. Both concrete and wood ties will absorb plenty of water as concrete can be quite porous. I think the smooth sides would make it easy for passing trains to vibrate the ballast out hence the roller coaster effect