Clear to next interlocking signal auto or manual?

In territories where no intermediate wayside signals exist and signals have the add on C clear to next interlocking signal: is this signal automatic or it is very manual from the dispatcher's perspective? What I am asking, does the signal system check every individual block for occupancy before this is light will come on? OR is it more of manual thing where the DS looks at his display and seeing no block lights illuminated to the next CTC signal simply turns the light on?

Having never seen one illuminated, I would think the latter as multiple times in any day the track to the next interlocking would be clear for a short time but never see these things light up.

T2

As far as I know/can tell, its automatic.

Just a few weeks ago I was "fortunate" enough to deal with CSS failure on the NEC and going into NY. At several locations, I was held a stop signal, and when the signal would come up, the signal would be something better than a stop, and then several seconds later, the "C light" would start flashing. It was like that each time I got a stop signal.

However, from what I have noticed the few times I have had to deal with it (thank goodness) is that the dispatcher really takes control over the route, and when possible, will hold you out until the entire route is clear, and the C light will be illuminated. Which is just fine by me! I got a stop signal at CP Mid (never got a stop signal there EVER) Once the trains cleared out ahead of me going east into NYP, PSCC gave me the railroad as well as the C light. If I didn't have the "C light" and I took the signal - so long as it was better than a stop signal!, I would have to operate at Restricted Speed, because I would have to assume there is a train ahead of me somewhere. By holding me out an extra minute or two, it actually sped things up because I didn't have to operate at Restricted Speed, as it was telling me there was nothing ahead of me, inbetween CP Mid and A interlocking.

train2 wrote:In territories where no intermediate wayside signals exist and signals have the add on C clear to next interlocking signal: is this signal automatic or it is very manual from the dispatcher's perspective? What I am asking, does the signal system check every individual block for occupancy before this is light will come on? OR is it more of manual thing where the DS looks at his display and seeing no block lights illuminated to the next CTC signal simply turns the light on?

Having never seen one illuminated, I would think the latter as multiple times in any day the track to the next interlocking would be clear for a short time but never see these things light up.

T2

I highly doubt that the signal designers would leave the option for human error. Normally, the relays check the blocks ahead of it, and if they are up, I would think that's how you get your Clear to Next Interlocking light. I pretty much consider this a stop and proceed for 562 territory. Can any of the crews attest to seeing or not seeing a Stop and Proceed along with a C-light?

The "C" light is manually displayed by the dispatcher.

The C light is indeed controlled by the dispatcher. I have only ever had a CSS failure once while at Amtrak on train 66 and so I have green all the way into NYP with the flashing C lights. Opport, since some if not all of amtrak's home signals can display a stop and proceed, I doubt you would get a stop and proceed as well as a C light because the whole point of the C light is letting you know it's clear to the next home signal and if you get a stop and proceed, evidently there's a train between the blocks.

Moving this to Railroad Operations due to the fact that C lights are also on the CSX B&A line and I imagine other lines as well.

gprimr1 wrote:Moving this to Railroad Operations due to the fact that C lights are also on the CSX B&A line and I imagine other lines as well.

"C" lights or a clear to Next is a NORAC signal.

Amtrak67 of America wrote:The C light is indeed controlled by the dispatcher. I have only ever had a CSS failure once while at Amtrak on train 66 and so I have green all the way into NYP with the flashing C lights. Opport, since some if not all of amtrak's home signals can display a stop and proceed, I doubt you would get a stop and proceed as well as a C light because the whole point of the C light is letting you know it's clear to the next home signal and if you get a stop and proceed, evidently there's a train between the blocks.

Rogerrr, that's what I thought.

Well obviously the dispatcher controls the C light, as they must set up the system to know that it is needed to be displayed. However, I took the question as once the dispatcher has decided that train XXXX needs the C light, is it turned on at each interlocking, or once the dispatcher sets the route, are the C lights automatically displayed or does the dispatcher manually have to turn on the C light at each interlocking?

As budd said, I don't believe you could get a C light with a stop and proceed, but you could probably get it with any other signal. I honestly don't remember the signals I got a few weeks ago, but there were definitely other than clear, as we diverted several times (single tracking on the weekend, stopping at SEC, getting held at Swift for a Midtown Direct train, getting held at CP Mid). I would assume if the interlockings were close enough, say Lack and Erie, you could get an Approach or Slow Approach with a C light.

556 states the dispatcher cannot display stop and proceed or a restricting until the block is known to be clear. We know that we cannot except above signals with out permission of the dispatcher. So I guess a C light would be a moot point with the above.

In all my travels over the B&A (CSX356) only dealt with a C light once and if I remember correctly it was either limited clear or clear with it lit.

I don't work over NORAC territory, but on my home road, the equivalent of the "C" light can not be turned on unless the controlled block is clear to the next interlocking(The reason for having to hold a train before giving a signal). If a circuit is down in the controlled block or a switch is open the system will not allow the RTC/DS to punch in the "C" light. Not really automatic nor really manual.

RearOfSignal wrote:I don't work over NORAC territory, but on my home road, the equivalent of the "C" light can not be turned on unless the controlled block is clear to the next interlocking(The reason for having to hold a train before giving a signal). If a circuit is down in the controlled block or a switch is open the system will not allow the RTC/DS to punch in the "C" light. Not really automatic nor really manual.

Semi-automatic then? Haha

RearOfSignal wrote:I don't work over NORAC territory, but on my home road, the equivalent of the "C" light can not be turned on unless the controlled block is clear to the next interlocking(The reason for having to hold a train before giving a signal). If a circuit is down in the controlled block or a switch is open the system will not allow the RTC/DS to punch in the "C" light. Not really automatic nor really manual.

Thats kinda what I thought....when I was dealing with the C lights a few weeks ago, it was pretty consistent with the amount of time inbetween when the signal came up and when the C light came on (like 3 or 4 seconds or so)

amtrakhogger wrote:The "C" light is manually displayed by the dispatcher.

Amtrak67 of America wrote:The C light is indeed controlled by the dispatcher.

The dispatcher does not control the actual "C" light per se, but he does have the ability to enable/disable the "IF-THEN" relay-logic circuit responsible for displaying Clear to Next Interlocking at an individual, or series of interlockings associated with a particular route. This is why it's assumed the dispatcher "manually" controls the "C" light itself, when in all actuality he does not...

AmTransit wrote:

amtrakhogger wrote:The "C" light is manually displayed by the dispatcher.

Amtrak67 of America wrote:The C light is indeed controlled by the dispatcher.

The dispatcher does not control the actual "C" light per se, but he does have the ability to enable/disable the "IF-THEN" relay-logic circuit responsible for displaying Clear to Next Interlocking at an individual, or series of interlockings associated with a particular route. This is why it's assumed the dispatcher "manually" controls the "C" light itself, when in all actuality he does not...

Technically the dispatcher does not really "control" anything. The dispatcher is mearly making "requests" to the vital logic in the field (be it relay-based or a microprocessor-controlled). It's the same as if the dispatcher tries to throw a switch or clear a signal with a train inside the interlocking. The switch won't throw and the signal won't clear unless the vital logic allows it. Does that mean the signals and switches are not manually controlled by the dispatcher? No. Nothing happens unless the dispatcher presses the button first. So they ultimately have manual control of those functions. For something to be automatic it must completely function on it's own without any outside control (i.e. a wayside intermediate signal).