Choo Choo U

I'll add my two cents worth.

1. If the carrier is going to rely on the schools, then EVERYONE that gets hired must complete the school first. That doesn't happen with BNSF.

2. There are a lot of false hopes raised on the part of the students. I know one person who got caught in the BNSF hiring freeze about a year ago, after the school told him of all the jobs that were available. Too bad the school was still churning out grads even when the freeze hit. (There are a lot of postings on this site about unemployed grads.)

3. If the school is so complete, then why does BNSF still make people go through the complete 13 or 15 week training course? Shouldn't the grads get "time off for good behavior"? Instead, BNSF makes everyone go through the same course, regardless of background or education. All BNSF is really interested in is a high school diploma.

Seems to me that ChooChoo U's tuition is just a cover charge, except you don't always get in the door to see the show.

These new students have got to remember, education is a huge industry and schools, all schools have something to sell.

freshmeat wrote: Seems to me that ChooChoo U's tuition is just a cover charge, except you don't always get in the door to see the show.

That's the BEST line I've heard in a long time.

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I say pay for the education if your willing to do so. Or do like I did. Move from Atlanta to Salt Lake City and hire out with a Class 1 (UPRR) and let them pay for your training. Why shell out 4K for the opportunity of a guaranteed interview, but no guarantee of a job? I have no idea where you can take that Choo Choo education and apply it to another field.

Good luck to those prospective Choo Choo students.

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Drug test, yes, but I'm not sure how someone could be at fault for failing a physical.
I don't know what your school's policies are, but doing such testing after the point at which someone is no longer able to get any refund on their tuition is a bit underhanded. Such things should be checked at the very start.

Chris

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mrsadventure wrote:I read some of these posts with the negativity from those of you who do not agree with the guidelines for Class 1 railroad hiring conductors through a school / training based program. You call it Choo Choo U. I am involved with one of these programs directly and it is unfortunate that some of you believe that these schools are not worthy and that they are not useful.

I dont believe anyone said they are not useful. The consensus is that they are a waste of money and provide the very basic training, training that the railroad should provide for free. The schools turn out "graduates" that think because they took a short course in a protected environment they are qualified to perform the same job that others have taken years to perfect.

mrsadventure wrote:I have to disagree with this simply because I am involved with this program.

Well that’s a good reason to disagree.

mrsadventure wrote:I think when we dont know about somthing we generalize.

I am going to have to agree with you on this one.

mrsadventure wrote:I think it gives these individuals a basis for learning and knowing the information before stepping foot on railroad property, which is much better than just throwing them out there on the job to sit with with an old head that sometimes follows the rules and teaches bad habits!

You know this how? You worked as a trainman on a Class one and saw first hand old heads sometimes following the rules and teaching bad habits.

That brings me back to this.

mrsadventure wrote:I think when we dont know about somthing we generalize.

mrsadventure wrote: I realize that 4500 is a lot of money to spend on the training, but I compare it to my training. I went to a 4 year university and took out $30,000 in student loans, went to school for 4 years and when I was done, they handed me a piece of paper and said, "Good Luck". These guys only have to go to school for 5 weeks (not 4 years) pay 1/5 of the price that I did and 98% of them have a job making more money than I do within 2 days!

That four year university degree is worth a whole lot more than a five week stint in a trade school. Degrees are applicable to hundreds of jobs in various fields. Your school is good for a job on one class 1 RR. $4500 seems like a large sum to pay for five weeks of training. As for your "good luck" comment, every four year university I have seem as a job center that helps graduates find jobs. Sure it takes a little effort to go to the office and fill out the paper work but it is not something a college grad cant handle.

mrsadventure wrote: I think those of you who make fun of these programs, really just dont know how they work. People put their application in and if they meet the requirements, we let them come to an Orientation session where we tell them all about the job, and we stress how they will be away from home, will work all weekends, holidays, birthdays, etc. We actually make it look worse than it really is. We give them the option to leave if it is not the right fit for them. We do not want to recruit people for the Class 1 that we dont think will fit the lifestyle. We then make them take a reading test to make sure they can comprehend the material. We then interview each applicant to make sure of their background, etc. Only then if someone passes and meets all the criteria, will we put them on our waiting list. Once on our waiting list, they are basically waiting for us to call them for a class.

Sounds exactly like the hiring process I went through when I hired on, except I didn’t have to pay $4500 to do it.

mrsadventure wrote:Since the inception of the school based learning and hiring, this specific Class 1 has moved from #5 in safety to #2 in the last few years. They have also decreased their attrition rate from 40% down to 8%.

What proof do you have that your school is the reason your class 1 moved up in safety? Anyone in the RR industry knows that there is no magic bullet to improve safety. Safety is a team effort and no one thing can improve it alone. It seems pretty boisterous to assert your five week course has the ability to improve safety by that large of an amount. One last thing in this regard, surely somewhere in that four years of college you took you had to hear of "ex-post facto fallacies"

I will give you the attrition rate since your graduates "buy" their jobs they sure don’t want to quit when they such have a large sum vested.

mrsadventure wrote:I hope that this gives some of you a better understanding about how the school based system works and it may not change your mind, but in my eyes, you cant beat it. It is a very fair way to work for the railroad, because its not about who you know, its about who you are.

I don’t see how paying $4500 for something you can have for free is fair, and I sure don’t see how it is "really fair". Your last line insinuates that anyone that doesn’t go to your school some how got hired by knowing someone on the inside. Sure some do but the vast majority get hired by their merits and it is insulting to these people to suggest otherwise.

mrsadventure wrote:And also, NS has such a good safety record because their employees dont report their injuries. They are threatened if they do. Guess I would not report mine either if they tried to fire me afterwards. NS also has a very high attrition rate because they go into paid training and once these students actually start marking up, they quit because its actually real work!

I want to see some proof to back up those statements.

That brings me back to this.

mrsadventure wrote:I think when we dont know about somthing we generalize.

I couldnt have said it better myself.

mrsadventure wrote:As far as on the job training, once these students get into class, they have 3 days of field training

$4500 for 3 days of OJT thats only $1500 a day! What a bargain! Please please sign me up!

Im sure three days of OJT really prepares someone for such a dangerous job.

mrsadventure wrote:The ultimate responsibility for them being a success is up to each one of you old heads to help them. That is how we all learn, through time and help!

If that’s the case, then why do they need to pay you $4500, when it is the same old heads you previously insulted that make or break them.

mrsadventure wrote:Sure, not everyone we put thorugh this school will make great conductors, many of these students coming through are recommendations from Trainmasters and Upper management. We have very strict entrance criteria. You cant just know someone to get in.

Contridiction much?

mrsadventure wrote:By the time I pay instructors $16,000 for 5 weeks, $20,000 in monthly advertising costs, $10,000 in monthly operational costs. I am usually in the red.

You spend alot of money on advertising for someone that claims to have waiting lists.

mrsadventure wrote:I enjoy going out there and recruiting poeple who want a career, not just a stupid paycheck to paycheck job. I like the fact that I take these minimum wage earners, put them in class, and see them get hired so that they can provide a better life for their family.

If they don’t spend $4500 on your school that is $4500 more that they have to provide a better life for their family. I wonder how many of your students actually made minimum wage before they attend your school. Since you say your selective I doubt very many are. Sounds like another exaggeration on your part.

mrsadventure wrote:The old system of the railroad doing their own hiring only hired people if you knew someone.

I didn’t pay to get my job and I knew no one on the inside. I'd be willing to bet I am not the only one.

The only thing you have proved in all your posts is the schools are good for the railroads. You do most of their HR work, give the employees a very basic understanding of their job then charge the employee $4500 for it. You have not proven that paying for your school is good for the employee or for their fellow employees. Until you provide some proof otherwise, all of the opinions expressed by the members of this board are valid. Your school is a win win for the railroad and a win-lose for the employee. I just don’t see how paying $4500 for your school would help me anymore than going to work for a RR that doesn’t require the school and getting all you provide for free and get paid while I do it.

Damn, Peacemaker, why don't you just take a brake club and walk into the place swinging? The last I knew it was a free country and nobody was forcing people to attend the place. If a carrier elects to go through their services that's their choice. Either they get SOME value, real or imagined, by using the school, or they go back to the old way of doing it themselves. And how the hell do you run a 2-man crew ragged and expect them to teach a student at the same time? When I'm out there, I can either focus on the work and get it done safely, correctly, and in a reasonable time, or I can be a teacher. Add that student, and our productivity takes a dive because I am now responsible for the newbie. I agree 100% the newbie has no idea when they leave the school, but do you see any carriers adding a third man to teach the fourth one? Not very likely!

The school is a real strange deal and I don't have any experience with their graduates. But why act like they are doing something illegal or crooked? Besides in the long run it won't matter. They're down to one man with remotes now. Next the guy with the remote will be in a tower, and then they'll computerize road jobs and run them with nobody on at all. You know how they have a big dispatchers office in the main office? Come back in 20 years and they'll have engineers offices, with somebody looking at video feed out the nose of a train 1500 miles away.

Mrsadventure already acknowledged they don't turn out a finished product. I'm sure some of the students don't see it that way. The problem is when the company feels that way too. But it's a free country. How about some of us older guys start our own school, charge $30,000 a year tuition, and issue a degree after 4 years? All we need is a campus a couple hundred miles long, a couple big yards, and a lot of traffic!

I was thinking about attending NARS, but I live in Minnesota. Do you have to pay for your own lodging? Or is that covered by the school?

enjoythesilence wrote:I was thinking about attending NARS, but I live in Minnesota. Do you have to pay for your own lodging? Or is that covered by the school?

You pay for everything. Not a good deal right now with a carrier that has told me, and other grads that it will not be hiring for the rest of the year.

Former NARS grad now working for UP

Awesome post Peace_Maker. I hope I speak for everyone here that we are tired of reading posts by mrsadventure patting herself on the back about her "choo-choo u".
Of course she's gonna think that her school is the way to go, according to her, she runs the place. She's just using this website and this post to brag up her school, and about her 98% hiring rate. Free advertising that that she can take off of the $20,000 in advertising costs.
I was hired off the street, didn't know a soul that worked at the location, and didn't know a thing about trains and got hired on. The company trained me, paid me for the training, paid my hotel, meals and mileage. So yeah, I think that choo-choo u is a rip-off.
I also was furloughed this past winter for 3 months, thank god I didn't have an additional $4500 buck bill to pay.

While I may admit that most folks who "graduate" from so-called "choo choo u" may actually know the book rules better than us "old heads", the application of those rules is a completely different matter.

And there is absolutely NO way she can describe railroad working conditions and make them appear worse than they actually are. The constant "living by the phone", constant no schedule, every weekend, nights, third shifts, second shifts, no making plans, going to work and not knowing when you're coming back home, operating rules, contract rules, hazmat rules, safety rules, 12 (or 13, 14 or 15) hour days, the rain, the snow, the heat, the waiting, the delays, the mismanagement, the away from home motels in places you've never heard of, the 24/7. All of the above, so easy to say: try doing it for a while.

But, it does beat picking cotton!

AMDG & other private train schools exist for one reason, and that is to make profit. yes, there are some nice people in the organization, and you will learn the signals & some rules, but this simply is not a career you learn in a classroom, and at the end of the day you're buying a job. maybe. if everything works out & you're lucky enough to make it through your derail without getting fired, and have plenty of work, then maybe it's worth it... otherwise, it's a lot of debt & expense to accrue when you're already unemployed.

Nice Peace_Maker you stated alot of what I was thinking.

Aji-tater as far as it being a free country and nobody being forced. Well on some of the class 1's NARS is required for all new hires without prior expierence. Nothings free.