CharlieCard / Ticket discussion

This hack of a "solution" is being rolled out to all zones next month.

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The passes page includes the following disclaimer (boding mine).

Commuter Rail Zone Passes are delivered on a CharlieCard, while supplies last. Interzone Passes are delivered on a CharlieTicket.

saulblum wrote:The passes page includes the following disclaimer (boding mine).

Commuter Rail Zone Passes are delivered on a CharlieCard, while supplies last. Interzone Passes are delivered on a CharlieTicket.

I only assume they put that there to protect them in case they run out of pre-printed passes. I've been buying my zone 6 pass via the website for several years, and I've never not received a pre-printed pass.

Actually, the only time I've ever seen them run out was the month that they mis-coded all of the pre-printed passes, and had to exchange them for good ones. By the time I did so at the South Station ticket office, they had run out of zone 6 pre-printed passes, so the agent just gave me a zone 7 pass.

BlueFreak wrote:I only assume they put that there to protect them in case they run out of pre-printed passes. I've been buying my zone 6 pass via the website for several years, and I've never not received a pre-printed pass.

Except these are the new disposable CharlieCards with a pass printed on the back. You know, the hacked solution to bring Charlie to the commuter rail. And now that we have this "solution" there will be absolutely no motivation to ever introduce electronic fare payment on the commuter rail.

BlueFreak wrote:

saulblum wrote:The passes page includes the following disclaimer (boding mine).

Commuter Rail Zone Passes are delivered on a CharlieCard, while supplies last. Interzone Passes are delivered on a CharlieTicket.

I only assume they put that there to protect them in case they run out of pre-printed passes. I've been buying my zone 6 pass via the website for several years, and I've never not received a pre-printed pass.

Actually, the only time I've ever seen them run out was the month that they mis-coded all of the pre-printed passes, and had to exchange them for good ones. By the time I did so at the South Station ticket office, they had run out of zone 6 pre-printed passes, so the agent just gave me a zone 7 pass.

Oh great, now I've got something else to worry about - I went to the trouble of getting my pass online and risking it not showing up in the mail (versus in person purchase) just to get a card! That'll suck if I still get the same old ticket.

saulblum wrote:

BlueFreak wrote:I only assume they put that there to protect them in case they run out of pre-printed passes. I've been buying my zone 6 pass via the website for several years, and I've never not received a pre-printed pass.

Except these are the new disposable CharlieCards with a pass printed on the back. You know, the hacked solution to bring Charlie to the commuter rail. And now that we have this "solution" there will be absolutely no motivation to ever introduce electronic fare payment on the commuter rail.

They need to do something in the interim to accommodate commuter rail passholders who use the subway. The faregate ticket readers are failing at appalling rates, to the point that a daily ticket passholder is likely to get their pass rejected multiple times a week. If it gets bad, the only recourse is replace your pass at the DTX CharlieCard store (which can have all the fun of visiting the Registry, but with a less pleasant waiting area). This hopefully will make the faregates last longer (and break less) by removing a lot of ticket reads from the magnetic stripe readers.

Perhaps the new passes could work with some sort of conductor-carried handheld readers. By having monthly passes printed with zones, crews could still visually inspect most rush hour riders passes, but could then still accept CharlieCards for occasional riders, combined with occasional scans of passes to prevent fraud. I still can't see a system where everyone (including monthly passholders) have to have their cards scanned working - nothing is faster than visual inspection.

I envision a technology solution where you tap + rfid your pass on a reader in the door of the coach as you enter. If you change coaches you have to tap again as you pass through. Sensors detect persons entering, and if you enter without tapping the revenuers are alerted & watch the cameras in real time & alert the conductor who will intercept the passenger and collect the fare or throw 'em off. Facial recognition also sets off alarms for repeat scofflaws or criminals. Theoretically allows 1 engineer + 1 conductor operation assuming level boarding and electric doors.

BandA wrote:I envision a technology solution where you tap + rfid your pass on a reader in the door of the coach as you enter. If you change coaches you have to tap again as you pass through. Sensors detect persons entering, and if you enter without tapping the revenuers are alerted & watch the cameras in real time & alert the conductor who will intercept the passenger and collect the fare or throw 'em off. Facial recognition also sets off alarms for repeat scofflaws or criminals. Theoretically allows 1 engineer + 1 conductor operation assuming level boarding and electric doors.

I like the system that CalTrain has:

Tickets are NOT sold on the train. Caltrain is a proof-of-purchase system. Passengers must have a valid ticket before boarding the train and must show their ticket to a conductor or fare inspector upon request. Those without a valid ticket may be cited and fined.

If you have their Charlie Card-equivalent, you tap on/off on the platforms - much easier than equipping the coaches. The key to this is frequent checking and enforcement of the POP. Infrequent riders can buy single-rides and day passes from machines at stations and on platforms. More here.

The challenge is equipping the far-flung and lightly used stations on the MBTA system with both fare vending machines and validators. What's the largest US system that's gone for this? Even Metrolink only has 55 stations (and all new) versus the T's 137, many of which are little more than an asphalt strip with a sign.

octr202 wrote:The challenge is equipping the far-flung and lightly used stations on the MBTA system with both fare vending machines and validators. What's the largest US system that's gone for this? Even Metrolink only has 55 stations (and all new) versus the T's 137, many of which are little more than an asphalt strip with a sign.

Do you need ticket machines at every platform? LIRR, MNRR and NJT all have a comparable number of stations, and I don't think any has ticket machines at every one.

Those systems sell tickets on board trains. The new POP systems (like Caltrain, Metrolink, etc) do not have on-board sales. I suppose smart-card validation on the platform at most stations, combined with conductor sales at other stations, might work, but it'd be complex and confusing.

saulblum wrote:

octr202 wrote:The challenge is equipping the far-flung and lightly used stations on the MBTA system with both fare vending machines and validators. What's the largest US system that's gone for this? Even Metrolink only has 55 stations (and all new) versus the T's 137, many of which are little more than an asphalt strip with a sign.

Do you need ticket machines at every platform? LIRR, MNRR and NJT all have a comparable number of stations, and I don't think any has ticket machines at every one.

The vast majority of LIRR stations have ticket machines. Some outer Montauk Line stations got them recently. I think it's just a few Greenport Line stations that lack them. But conductors on those trains tend to have the handheld ticket computers which take credit cards.

It's similar on Metro North. The only stations without machines might be the very low-traffic stations on the branches off the New Haven line, and the hiker stations on the Hudson Line.

Regarding CommuterCharlie passes, I guess they ran out. I got my April pass yesterday, and it's just a plain old ticket. I wonder if only corporate pass customers got them this time around.

Hey all. I'll be in boston next week for 5 or so days, so is the 7 day Charliecard an idea way to travel to and from the Hynes if you want to say buy something to eat/go to and from Boston South Station, and possibly see the Constitution at the Navy Yard?

Ryand-Smith wrote:Hey all. I'll be in boston next week for 5 or so days, so is the 7 day Charliecard an idea way to travel to and from the Hynes if you want to say buy something to eat/go to and from Boston South Station, and possibly see the Constitution at the Navy Yard?

Get it on a ticket. Its good for the ferry to the Navy Yard. With the Charlie Card you have to take the bus.