BSL Ridge Ave Spur

A coworker asked me last night about the history and reason for existence of the Ridge Ave. Spur. Since I'm not to good with rapid transit history in the Philly area, I thought I would ask here.

Drew

RDG-LNE wrote:A coworker asked me last night about the history and reason for existence of the Ridge Ave. Spur. Since I'm not to good with rapid transit history in the Philly area, I thought I would ask here.

Drew

The Ridge Spur was to be part of a subway route that was to run from Roxborough to Darby. Roughly, the routing was to be under Henry Ave [there are subway tunnels built into the Henry Ave bridge over the Wissahickon Creek], 29th st, Ridge Ave, 8th St, Locust St, then under the Schuylkill, through the Penn Campus to Woodland Ave where it will emerge and run as an El over Woodland probably to Darby.

That was the original plan. As you can see the reality turned out to be much different. The route was doomed because the folks in the Rittenhouse Sq neighborhood did not want any more tunneling through their posh neighborhood [this was the reason the Locust St Subway sat unused until 1953, then in partial service until 1969 when it became the present PATCO line, also it is the reason the line ends abruptly at 18th St.]

Then in the mid 1930's, City planners decided to take the Woodland Ave Subway and turn that into the present underground route for the Subway-Surface cars, and attatch it to the existing SS line under Market St.

As for the North Philly-Roxborough portion, that was just plain forgotten.

The Ridge Spur was to be a really nice route, but the reality is that it is an almost useless branch of the BSS.

wasn't it also at one time used to connect to the present day PATCO line over the ben franklin bridge at 8th & market?

I'm assuming (since I've only ridden the spur once) that it's a flyover type junction where the spur meets the four track main spine? The Ridge spur joining the two express tracks close to Fairmount? Also, is it possible to listen to BSS communications an a scanner, like RRD?

Drew

Actually I think it would be considered a duckunder.

And at one point yes, the Locust Street subway connected directly to the BSL. Before PATCO took over, the Bridge line cars were kept at Fern Rock. Again, it would have been nice to send the Ridge trains striaght to 17th-Locust. I'm sure PATCO wouldn't allow it today as the signal systems aren't compatible, and its probablly not possible to single track both ops between 8th-Market and 17th Street.

PATCO severed their physical connection with the Ridge Ave Spur to stop vandalism of PATCO property.

The Ridge Spur connects with the BSS express tracks at Girard and diverges at Fairmount. The photo linked below is looking south at Girard where the Ridge Spur diverges to the right and the BSS express track goes straight.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/280 ... 5890gGTzqP

The photo linked below shows the Ridge Spur, which is starting to descend to go under the BSS southbound express track on the left.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/280 ... 6074VPFqmE

Bob

jfrey40535 wrote:

I'm sure PATCO wouldn't allow it today as the signal systems aren't compatible, and its probablly not possible to single track both ops between 8th-Market and 17th Street.

The are now different voltages as well. BSS is still at 600 VDC while PATCO is at the 700-750 VDC range, IIRC.

The primary reasons that the Ridge Ave. Spur stays in operation is that it is convenient for Gallery Mall employees and shoppers from North Philadelphia, and the City refuses to allow it to be closed without a fight.

The reality is that it never sees more than a two car train, and peak headways are 7 minutes, offpeak 20 minutes. Given that the main BSS trunks is only six blocks (or three MFSE station stops) away (and only three blocks from the other end of the Gallery), it is hard to continue to justify the operation as it currently exists.

To the extent that it might improve operations, the spur could be extended to form a loop to carry local trains back to the trunk of the BSS. What other city has express subway trains terminating downtown while making everyone use the local to get from one end to the other?

jfrey40535 wrote:Actually I think it would be considered a duckunder.

And at one point yes, the Locust Street subway connected directly to the BSL. Before PATCO took over, the Bridge line cars were kept at Fern Rock. Again, it would have been nice to send the Ridge trains striaght to 17th-Locust. I'm sure PATCO wouldn't allow it today as the signal systems aren't compatible, and its probablly not possible to single track both ops between 8th-Market and 17th Street.

A flyover is a flyover is a flyover. Some tracks went above some other tracks, so regardless of whether the diverging route climbs or drops to clear the other tracks' grade it's a flyover. "Duckunder" would just confuse the model railroading types as that's a commonly used term for a section of railroad which one has to duck under to enter a railroad which obscures the doorway.

Again, it would have been nice to send the Ridge trains striaght to 17th-Locust. I'm sure PATCO wouldn't allow it today as the signal systems aren't compatible, and its probablly not possible to single track both ops between 8th-Market and 17th Street.

PATCO and the Broad Ridge Subway can still coexist, it just takes capital improvements on both sides to make them compatible. At this point SEPTA is likely 20 years from replacing the Broad Street Subway stock, while PATCO is probably 10 years away from replacing their oldest cars. The nice thing is that PATCO has maintained their cars very well and with a good rebuild program could get 10 years more out of them, bringing to the same replacement time as the younger PATCO-II and B-IV cars. Given this coincidence between fleet replacement periods it makes some sense to order compatible cartypes, with changes only to the seating and perhaps door placement. At that time both PATCO and SEPTA can upgrade their signaling systems to compatible CBTC (or whatever has replaced CBTC) systems for use on the new rolling stock for running OPTO like the MFL does. This way PATCO and SEPTA can share 8th and Market Lower Level as well as the Locust St Subway, which gets the Ridge Ave line out of 8th and Market, and makes it almost every bit as useful as the BSS Express with a cross platform transfer between PATCO and the BRS.

Of course the biggest problem here would be getting the fare structures to fit together. The logical way to go about this would be for SEPTA to use the same fare medium PATCO will use as of their next upgrade, a touchless smartcard for weekly, monthly or high-stored value cards, with magnetic 'Metrocard' like cards for single, round trip, or low stored value tickets. PATCO customers could be forced to 'touch out' for the zone fare while perhaps SEPTA could use a touch out fare control without a zone fare being assessed. Of course if the Roosevelt Blvd Subway is built then SEPTA might want to charge a small zone fare on that line. The great benefit with PATCO and SEPTA using a fare system is that the possibility would exist to join the MFL and PATCO/BRS platforms at 8th and Market with a free transfer. If SEPTA uses a touch-out system then the PATCO zone fare can be assessed as if you're riding from wherever in NJ to 8th and Market and then the transfer fare, which currently requires you to purchase a small transfer inside PATCO fare control. Of course if you're using a stored value smartcard then you can get the transfer fare from SEPTA to PATCO without having to start your trip inside PATCO's fare control.

In the 1970s the DVRPC proposed extending PATCO's tracks from 18th St. underground to West Phila. The line would have surfaced there and used the old Cardington ROW to connect with the P&W. Since the two systems are technologically similar (almost compatible) the idea was to run through service from the western suburbs to NJ. Interestingly it would have almost re-created the P&W's early proposal to operate into CC via Chestnut Street.

For any number of reasons (cost, the same opposition to more tunneling, cutbacks in transit funding, etc.) plans never got beyond the blue-sky stage.

nittany4 wrote:wasn't it also at one time used to connect to the present day PATCO line over the ben franklin bridge at 8th & market?

During Bridge Line days, the present PATCO station at 8th & Market served both the Bridge Line and the Ridge- Broad Spur. Broad-Ridge trains simply reversed directions in the station, which was a terminus for that line, while the Bridge Line Trains passed through the station on their way to and from 16th & Locust. Both lines were operated by the old PTC as part of the Broad Street Subway system, and the Bridge Line Cars, though newer than both BSS car types, were entirely compatible with those BSS cars.

When the Bridge Line was extended to become the present PATCO line, and was no longer operated by the Philadelphia transit operator ( which by this time had become SEPTA), the Broad- Ridge Spur at 8th Street was diverted into a newly built station which is on the same level as the MFSE, though, because of the differing track guages, there is no track connection between the two lines. The lower level station at 8th Street, then became exclusively a PATCO station.

walt wrote:

nittany4 wrote:wasn't it also at one time used to connect to the present day PATCO line over the ben franklin bridge at 8th & market?

During Bridge Line days, the present PATCO station at 8th & Market served both the Bridge Line and the Ridge- Broad Spur. Broad-Ridge trains simply reversed directions in the station, which was a terminus for that line, while the Bridge Line Trains passed through the station on their way to and from 16th & Locust. Both lines were operated by the old PTC as part of the Broad Street Subway system, and the Bridge Line Cars, though newer than both BSS car types, were entirely compatible with those BSS cars.

The service to 16th and Locust ran on weekdays [6am to 7pm] only. Nights, and weekends Bridge Line service terminated at 8th and Market. For a while, it was common for the train to go from the terminal at Girard Ave, to 8th and Market, then to Broadway, then back to 8th and Market, then on to Girard.

Mdlbigcat wrote:
The service to 16th and Locust ran on weekdays [6am to 7pm] only. Nights, and weekends Bridge Line service terminated at 8th and Market. For a while, it was common for the train to go from the terminal at Girard Ave, to 8th and Market, then to Broadway, then back to 8th and Market, then on to Girard.

I rode some of those trains when going to Phillies games at Shibe Park. I'd get on the Bridge Train at Broadway with a 20 cent PTC token and a 2.5 cent Bridge token and ride to 8th & Market. The train would then reverse direction and go up to Girard, where I'd get a BSS train to Lehigh and walk to 21st and watch the Phillies lose.

That's an interesting variation on the "normal" Bridge Line operation. I never had any reason to ride the Bridge Line during evening or weekend hours, so I wasn't aware of that variation. I DO remember that in those days, even during the week, the northern terminus of the Ridge-Broad trains was Girard Ave.

I rode the Ridge Avenue spur for the first time last Friday afternoon (I'm from New York) while riding around Philly. I got off a Rt 15 car at Broad St, went downstairs and got on the first train that came in. I thought it was gonna be a Broad St express but instead it turned out to be a Ridge Avenue train which was fine with me.

The line looks somewhat neglected - a lot of graffitti on the tunnel walls - and there were only a few riders. When we got to 8th Street I wondered if I there was a free transfer to the MFL (I was headed for the Septa Museum on Market and then lunch in the Gallery) but discovered there wasn't. I thought the 8th Street station could use some sprucing up, it seemed kinda dingy.

I'm glad to be able to finally say, Yes I've ridden the Ridge Avenue spur!

tommy

Tommy Meehan wrote:I rode the Ridge Avenue spur for the first time last Friday afternoon (I'm from New York) while riding around Philly. I got off a Rt 15 car at Broad St, went downstairs and got on the first train that came in. I thought it was gonna be a Broad St express but instead it turned out to be a Ridge Avenue train which was fine with me.

The line looks somewhat neglected - a lot of graffitti on the tunnel walls - and there were only a few riders. When we got to 8th Street I wondered if I there was a free transfer to the MFL (I was headed for the Septa Museum on Market and then lunch in the Gallery) but discovered there wasn't. I thought the 8th Street station could use some sprucing up, it seemed kinda dingy.

I'm glad to be able to finally say, Yes I've ridden the Ridge Avenue spur!

tommy

The Ridge Spur is the stepchild of the SEPTA system. If SEPTA had its way, the spur would be closed and abandoned, so that describes the minimum maintenance done at the line's stations.

The trains on the Ridge Spur are supposed to be a LOCAL service, not an EXPRESS service. The story is as follows:

Originally the Ridge line was an Erie-8th and Market Local service that ran during rush hours when Fern Rock-Pattison ran express. In 1979, the spur was closed due to an equipment shortage [too many of the old red cars died], then it remained closed because of the commuter tunnel construction[it passed under the spur just north of the Chinatown Station]. Service was restored in 1983 as a LOCAL service [Erie/8th-Market] during rush hours, and during other times Girard/8th-Market shuttle. Later in the decade, [around '88 or '89], the interlockings failed at Erie. That shut down the switches at the Girard Crossover, and the switches to the upper level turnback/storage area at Erie, so the Spur trains were converted to an EXPRESS service since it was the only way the route can stay operational.

After Railworks, SEPTA spent a pretty penny fixing the interlocking at Erie, and restored the Spur route to a LOCAL/shuttle service, but it literally sparked a rider rebellion on the BSS, and after some political arm-twisting, SEPTA restored the spur tains to its current EXPRESS service where it remanins to the present.