B unit front

When looking at F units, F3, F7 A units theres the small letter f which shows the front of the locomotive. On B units how do you tell which end is the front? I dont recall seeing the small letter f on any end.
How would shop personel know which truck or wheel you are talking about it theres no "front" designated.

I'd guess the guys back then would have know which way the motor was facing behind the doors.

Are you sure the f doesn't indicate which type of coupler is installed?

"B" units do have a front, and rear. They are (were) marked with the "F" too. The easy answer might be the "F" end is the same end, where the cab would have been. You have to have a front, to be able to designate axle numbers, left and right, etc., for defect reporting. Some of the early FT's had drawbars between the lead loco, and the "B" unit. Some roads actually considered this set-up, to be a single loco, with 8 axles. Just depends on who owned the loco, I would imagine.....

Here's how that "F" looked, on the LV http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/lv/lv519adc.jpg

Rockin' Roller;

"The letter "F" shall be legibly shown on each side of every locomotive near the end which for identification purposes will be known as the front end."

49 CFR 229.11 (a)

I have seen placards in the locos showing the different coupler types, so I just assumed that is what the f was all about.
Who would of thought you would need a rule to tell someone which was the front?

The F is needed for identification purposes, like which wheel is bad or which brake shoes were replaced, italso helps toi identify the F end on say a AEM7-ALP46 - RDC, DMU, or others when the front end is not to obvious.

Years ago you could have two GP9s which outwardly appeared identical but if they were from different orders one might be long hood front and the other short hood front. If you were passing signals to the engineer it would be important to know which way was which.

DutchRailnut wrote:The F is needed for identification purposes, like which wheel is bad or which brake shoes were replaced, italso helps toi identify the F end on say a AEM7-ALP46 - RDC, DMU, or others when the front end is not to obvious.

Is there an obvious difference on the inside of a double-headed engine? I assume there is more to it than the end closest to the guy doling out "F" stickers.

Aji-tater wrote:Rockin' Roller;

"The letter "F" shall be legibly shown on each side of every locomotive near the end which for identification purposes will be known as the front end."

49 CFR 229.11 (a)

I asked about this rule a long time ago, but I don't think I ever got my question answered...which was that in many, many modern images of locomotives (and real-life viewings), I rarely see this marking (as opposed to say images from the 1950s/1960s, where the F is usually very visible) - this is not to say I don't see modern locomotives with F symbols (I have found some images), but do modern locomotives (freight diesels, in the US), often have this rule waived?

Not trying to agitate but take another look at your photos. I'd wager 99% of the locos out there today DO have the "F". It's possible one here or there got covered with dirt, and I have seen some industrial locos without the F if they're in-plant service only. No doubt somewhere there is one running around without it but it's a rarity - and as soon as an FRA inspector sees it, it will probably get written up for correction.

Even cab cars, which are considered locomotives by the FRA have to have an "F" end shown.

If a locomotive had dual control stands in the same cab, how was the F end determined or did it not matter, and was the preference of the RR?

Not that I always look, but it seems like all of the NS locos are marked.

Jtgshu wrote:Even cab cars, which are considered locomotives by the FRA have to have an "F" end shown.

If a locomotive had dual control stands in the same cab, how was the F end determined or did it not matter, and was the preference of the RR?

When I worked for the TZPR, formerly the P&PU, they had a fleet of little Cat powered switchers. They were all identical, inside and out. One of them, for some bizarre reason, had the long hood designated as the front. They were built with the engineers station on the right, running cab forward. This is opposite of EMD switchers, and the little GE's. It was a pain, tring to remember what loco you were in, so you would know which way was forward. "Somebody" took a giant Sharpie, and wrote front and back on the cab walls, above the end windows, and they also wrote Rev. and Fwd., in silver paint pen, on the control stand, as the directions were opposite of what every other loco in the country would have been. I asked a mechanic why they didn't just move the "F" to the correct end, and he didn't have an answer. He indicated some were designated cab forward, others hood forward, but they had restored all but one, to cab forward. So, yes, the railroad can designate wich end is the front. I sure don't miss that engine.......

Great story GA!!! hahahhaha

"come on back............no, BACK, not forward"

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr