Another spill and no RR police response....

Well, it would stand to reason that if the department is understaffed, then whoever is on duty would be out doing his job, not sitting in the office. Why there isn't voicemail or it's forwarded to the T.O.M.s is beyond me.

GRSGuy wrote:

Rockingham Racer wrote:Really? How'd you come by that knowledge?

because I'm a RR employee, I was there, and I spoke to the officer personally.

I find it interesting that you think the Chief wanted to lose the officers. The B&M Railroad Police had their funding cut by Mellon's holding company.

Thank you for indicating that you have first hand knowledge of the situation. The Lowell Sun doesn't mention police and you didn't mention anything about being there in your first post. That would've helped. Your profile doesn't let us know that, either.

Secondly, I didn't say anything about the Chief.

I understand, though, the recent police cutback on Pan Am. It's called "milking the railroad", just like in the 50's and 60's.

My apologies for the confusion. No, you didn't say anything about the Chief; someone else did. It is sad what has happened to the RR PD. However, the PD is not controlled by the railroad proper. It's a rather bizzare system that I could not hope to explain effectively. Now the Lowell Sun, they ALWAYS seem to slant their stories negatively towards the railroad. They, and the politicians obviously have failed to realize how many hundreds and hundreds of haz-mat cars we move through the town safely and securely.

Having grown up in Methuen, I was a reader of the Eagle-Tribune. Rail stories were reported, but not on page one. However, people bitten by dogs sometimes made headlines up front!

And now, we're waaaaaaaaaaaay off the topic!

peterw - I don't know where you got your information, but...Trust me on this one - If you get your information from the media, particularly the print media, (no pictures), and are not physically present during a situation, don't draw inferences from what they do or do not say, and make definitive comments. Excellently done, GRSGuy !

Thank you, Paul. I, for one, am proud of my chosen profession, and while it may be tough to do so at times, I try to be as responsible as I can to ensure the safety of the public, my coworkers and myself while still getting the job done efficiently. While it may not always be apparent, I believe that my company does the same. It is unfortunate what has happened to the RR PD, but on the same token there are a couple of small towns in NH that have recently abolished their police depts entirely. That is just plain scary. As with all incidents, there are three different sides to the story; the media, the company, and the real story. I'll leave this alone now.

The reason the RR PD are not notified on many incidents by local pd's is because they;

1. Don't answer the phone and are not reliable or accountable and being so few and so far between they take forever to get to a call.

2. Are losing their powers ( I will explain this below)

3. Are not attending required yearly training updates (yearly training with other local pd's ) anymore due to being banned because they are private and only public agencies can attend (they were audited).


This results in a loss of respect from other PD's because they can't do much without them holding their hands.

Here is one example ( I apologize if this is a little confusing and deep for some of our readers, though if you know a bit about laws it's really not that bad)

It seems that it all started going down hill for the RR PD when they tried to get more citation books for the officers and realized they didn't have the right to have the citation books to issue traffic tickets to begin with. That really hit the RR in the operation lifesaver aspect, which prior to that was a main positive point for the RR PD. (Not to mention the law suit they paid out on for stopping someone off railroad property and arresting them for a traffic violation.)

This all came about because the State did a (public) audit of all police departments and the ticket books and could not give the Railroad anymore because the RR PD are not authorized by Massachusetts statue to have the power to have citation books because the Chief of the RR PD is not considered a Chief under Mass State laws and therefore can't give out citation books to his officers....and the colonel of the state police can only issue them to full time members of his own department (troopers).

Here is where mass law defines "Police Chief" and the Railroad was left out because they are not backed by any police union and therefore not added to the list. (police unions control much of what goes on and they do not want the RR police having the power to close roads and with that comes stopping cars for fear they will lose their traffic details, all mighty dollar at work there!)

From mass law:

"Police chief'', the chief or the head of the organized police department of a city or town, the commissioner of public safety, the colonel of state police, the state superintendent of buildings, the chairmen of the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority, such person as the trustees of the University of Massachusetts shall appoint as chief of the police officers appointed under section thirty-two A of chapter seventy-five, such persons as the commissioner of mental health may designate at each institution of the department of mental health, or as the commissioner of mental retardation may designate at each institution of the department of mental retardation as chief of the special police officers thereat appointed under section fifty-nine of chapter twenty-two C or the chief of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority police department.

(Notice the Guilford or whatever you call it RR police are not listed above) The "Chief" of the mental retardation agency is the only special state police listed, (RR Police are special state police officers). Finally, they are NOT part of the MBTA; that is a state civil service public agency.

In addition, as you can see in the laws below specific to 22C sec 51 they may act as a police officer on RR property. They can go off RR Property only to go after someone that committed an arrestable offense on RR Property.

My source:

Read the laws yourself here if you want;

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90c-1.htm

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90c-2.htm

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/22c-51.htm

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/22c-52.htm

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/22c-53.htm

I thought the RR PD was part of the police officers union? I don't know for sure.

The RR PD only has jurisdiction on RR property, and the power to investigate crimes that take place on RR property, as you said. However, State Police, (at least in NH, not sure about Mass., etc) only have power on state property; parks, roads, etc. and to investigate crimes that occur on state property. It's kinda wierd how it all works. I'm close friends with a couple of NH state troopers who have explained it to be, but I don't recall exactly how it all works.

I have to take exception to SPACEMONKEY'S comments as regards to Railroad Police Officers, whom he has erroneously mischaracterized, as well as made mistakes in describing the application of Massachusetts General Law. First, under M.G.L. Chapter 22C, Section 51 Railroad Police are defined as "Police" on their own particular jurisdiction - both property and vehicular. The standard rule for an allowance by all "police" away from their jurisdiction is a "fresh and continuous pursuit" from their jurisdiction for purposes of making an arrest (misdomeanor or felony) which would be arrestable on their jurisdiction. This does not prevent police from conducting investigations, nor arresting on warrants, anywhere in the United States. As a courtesy, and as an "assist" in processing an arrest as well as supplying back-up and intelligence, often officers acting outside their jurisdiction will request other officers whose jurisdiction is in the area to accompany them on such investigations and attempts to serve warrants. Secondly, the bit about the "unions" not wanting railroad police doing details is news to me. I do know that many campus police department's, Suffolk County Sherriffs Department, MBTA Police and State Police perform many police functions and details within the city of Boston. Thirdly, I can tell you unequivocally that no police officer in the largest city police department in New England "looks down on" any other police officer who is conscientiously doing his duty, in this, an extremely hazardous world for all the family of police. A lone Railroad police officer investigating a box-car break-in at 3AM in the middle of a hard to find train yard has as much respect from me as any other police officer shagging radio calls in a cruiser on city streets. The size or activity level of a department means nothing when it comes down to being killed in the line of duty. Small town, big city, state, campus, railroad - it's all the same.

I figured it would be a bit too deep for some,

3rdrail sorry to say;

You missed the major points.

They LOST power to issue traffic citations, and that was a hard hit for the department and to help sustain itself from upper management cuts.

They are NOT RELIABLE OR ACCOUNTABLE therefore are not notified on many incidents, so that explains why sometimes they are not at calls or even notified of them. Please try calling them so you will see for yourself.

Local PD's can't call them and expect them to help them out with incidents that are even happening on railroad property and for the most part only hear from them when the RR officer needs a license plate check. Like I said, they can't do much of anything without the direct assistance of the city or town they are in to hold their hand, that tends to annoy some busy departments that are already maxed out.

And you for the most part said the same thing I did on jurisdiction you just veered off the issue at hand. However, the union issue is a massive one just ask the sherriffs department that has tried for years to get traffic tickets issued to them for enforcement, they were fought by the Mass state police union as well as the IBPO.

I said nothing about them personally, they are without training and equipment and I am right on when I say those two things are needed for respect in law enforcement and you call that "erroneously mischaracterized"?

Without too much said on that issue, sorry it was a bit too deep for some.

Have a great day:)

Spacemonkey - First of all, am I hallucinating or did you write (about railroad police), "This results in a loss of respect from other pd's because they can't do much without them holding their hands" ??? Well, if you did, I think that I am precisely on target as I have clearly demonstrated how they are perfectly self-sufficient according to Massachusetts General Law as well as standard police practice. My question to you in coming up with this statement which I have quoted is how do you know this ? Are you within a police department ? I can guarantee that you are not and I have not seen your profile. Are you a railroad police over-seer within the railroad industry ? I doubt it. As regards to the Suffolk County Sheriff's Department recieving citation books from the Registry of Motor Vehicles - the Sheriff's Dept. is not a law enforcement agency in Massachusetts. They are trained primarily as correction officers. Correction officers, to my knowledge, do not customarily recieve citation books for enforcement of motor vehicle law. You probably are an individual who knows nothing about which you speak, and gleans all your opinion from what you hear or read - second, third.....hand. And if I may say so, your obvious upset is quite telling ! As Shakespeare stated, you "doth protest too much".

3rdrail wrote:peterw - I don't know where you got your information, but...Trust me on this one - If you get your information from the media, particularly the print media, (no pictures), and are not physically present during a situation, don't draw inferences from what they do or do not say, and make definitive comments. Excellently done, GRSGuy !

No I don't get my info from the media.

I never drew any inferences from any statements.

I was being sarcastic in my initial post in order to infer the idiotic layoff to the RRPD during this time of need for law enforcement.

Then they have the nerve to put an article out in the pan am clipper about how much the RRPD is doing in law enforcement when they can't even answer the phone or at least supply a voice mail systym to get missed calls..

3rdrail, you said "I have clearly demonstrated"

sorry, but the only thing you have clearly demonstrated is you clearly don't know what your talking about and seem to be borderline hostile and aggressive in your post, so like I said before, have a nice day:)
I promise it will all be okay.

Let's try to re-rail this train, shall we?

Discussion about the Railroad Police is acceptable and encouraged, but as always, please be sure to get your facts straight before posting, and leave any personal attacks at the door. If things get out of hand, the topic will be locked. (And note that the topic probably would have been locked (or deleted) days ago if this was the Amtrak board. )

What chemical was spilled? Some hazmats are a big deal, some aren't (in the "few gallons" volume mentioned).
Carbon dioxide? No big deal, unless you get splashed by the ultracold liquid form (instant meat popsicle) or get stuck in a confined area low to the ground (vapor cloud is heavier than air, and displaces all oxygen, so you can't breathe). Otherwise harmless.
Hydrogen cyanide? Big deal. Deadly poison gas. Evacuate. I remember seeing these cars come through Lowell/Lawrence as recently as the early 90's. It's the gas used in the gas chamber...and to treat lumber. I think Hampshire Chemical in Nashua was the consignee.
Just two examples to show the variety of 'hazard' present in 'hazardous materials'. People should have the right info as an antidote to hysteria.