Anderson possible changes: Dismantling LD, Corridor, Etc.

As Mr. Trainguy notes, something has changed from the Boardman days.

The notion held ever since A-Day that 1) there was language in RPSA70 requiring a National System and that 2) maintaining such was the catalyst for Federal funding of a Regional operation, i.e. the Corridor. The first hint of change was Moorman's "weak" endorsement of the System with his "glue".

Somehow, Anderson has received enough "back channel" that National System can be defined as operating regional "corridors" throughout the land. Such corridors do exist Coast to Coast, and likely would not had it not been for Section 403(b) of the Act. Apparently those presently holding the Federal purse strings are prepared to fund, as they did "heap big" this current FY, without an interconnected national system.

This is a "turning point" for the LD system. Practically all of the equipment, locomotives and cars, is at or nearing the end of its service life. While I would contend that hardly $700M, or whatever, will be saved if all LD's were discontinued, there would be less $$$ "out of the cookie jar" than if continued. The $3M share of the $16M TIGER grant to do needed upgrades to the Lamy-La Junta line solely used by the Chief, will represent an avoidable cost. Even those, whose knowledge of accounting is that of the cookie jar, can readily understand that.

But one thing that is within the control of Amtrak management is the experiental (Mr. Anderson added a word to my vocabulary) reason to ride LD trains. This of course has the members of other boards that discuss the experience (ecstasy to some) of rail travel "up in arms". But the level of on-board service amenities is totally with the control of management, and the present management is not looking to satisfy those who merely want to take a joyride.

As someone who has ridden Amtrak for over 30 years, I cannot disagree with the facts in this post. For all of those 30 years in magazines such as Trains, PTJ, etc before the internet and then on message boards, and advocacy groups, we have read or been told big changes are needed at Amtrak. Well, the changes many have been clammoring for are here. And now we do not like it?

Gilbert B Norman wrote:
This is a "turning point" for the LD system. Practically all of the equipment, locomotives and cars, is at or nearing the end of its service life.

Isn't the Superliner equipment more like halfway through its service life? If built as well as the heritage equipment still in use on VIA, it should have a long way to go. I'll bet even the Santa Fe hi level fleet had a lot of potential life left.

Relevant, as it includes discussion of other services: https://vermontbiz.com/news/2018/may/01 ... n-question" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...
Advocates fear, moreover, that Anderson would be less than willing to reinstate a train such as the Vermonter or Ethan Allen if its service was suspended "temporarily" because of the PTC or related safety issues. Amtrak service between New Orleans and Florida was suspended in 2005, after Hurricane Katrina wreaked havoc with the line. While the freight operator repaired the route in a few months, Amtrak service on it has been suspended ever since.
...
Amtrak officials have spoken of reaching a decision on the future of services on routes such as Vermonter's this summer. Termination of a service normally requires 180 days' notice, meaning that a termination notice effective January 1, 2019, would be issued by July 5.
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It's not simply a matter of his reticence about running trains on routes that lack PTC: Anger is simmering about a variety of plans being implemented by Amtrak, or ascribed to it in unconfirmed reports, to reduce services across the company's 21,000 miles of routes.
...

Matt Johnson wrote:Isn't the Superliner equipment more like halfway through its service life? If built as well as the heritage equipment still in use on VIA, it should have a long way to go. I'll bet even the Santa Fe hi level fleet had a lot of potential life left.

24 years for the II series and 37-40 years age for the original Superliners. Still younger than the "backbone" Amfleets.

I'd buy the SWC being the most cuttable . It's traditional routing requires dedicated tracks through Colorado & New Mexico used by no other regular passenger or freight service that bypass larger population centers in favor of smaller ones. In so far as it can be broken into corridors, it's Chicago - Kansas City (where the train still beats the interstate, but there's hardly anything between Chicago & KC) and not much else in terms of significant cities. It goes bypasses Wichita and Amarillo in exchange for La Junta and Trinidad. It climbs a steep mountain pass that doesn't so much as get the train out of the Great Plains, and passes hundreds of miles away from regional population centers in the Colorado Front Range or Phoenix. It brings services to all of one state that wouldn't otherwise have train service. As Amtrak routes go, it's probably the most sustained by the nostalgia of bygone days. It would seem to be the existing LD services that's the closest to being the sum of it's parts,

But the argument is really that most LD trains are less than the sum of their parts - that they could be carved up into independently useful corridors that abut eachother in a way that's not really the case with the South West Chief, which is far more of a transcontinental route than the others. Under present conditions, the SW Chief achieves ridership not disimilar to other Western LDs, but it's hard to imagine a world where people can fly in airplanes where the Chief has that many more riders than it does today at reasonable expense.

Fear, uncertainty and doubt.... I suspect there's a big difference between discontinuing a state sponsored train vs. the Sunset. The states control both the Vermonter and the Ethan Allen. Amtrak might decide to stop operating without a waiver, but they can't stop the State from substituting another provider like what happened with the Hoosier State.

bdawe wrote:I'd buy the SWC being the most cuttable . It's traditional routing requires dedicated tracks through Colorado & New Mexico used by no other regular passenger or freight service that bypass larger population centers in favor of smaller ones.

Remember when everybody lost their mind over rerouting this train, put up a huge fight, found some borrowed money to keep it all rolling on the "passenger route"?

Yeah now look what happened. It stands out as a terrible decision and is easy to kill. If the Chief gets whacked, this romantic notion of running the Super Chief for another 200 years is a big part of the knife in its back.

I believe that what I'll call the "Amtrak Funding Caucus" can get to 218+51 without the LD "one a day" States anymore.

53..California
_5..Connecticut
_1..Delaware
18..Illinois
_9..Indiana
_9..Massachusetts
14..Michigan
12..New Jersey
27..New York
16..Ohio
18..Pennsylvania
11..Virginia
10..Washington

Bottom line is 203. That means these folk only have to find 15 votes to get a majority for Amtrak.

The Senate is harder, the vote count is only half of the need at 26. That's enough to do some issues horse trading.

So, where I once thought 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, and 7/8 mattered to Amtrak, I say now, as a political reality: So what, who cares? Post the 180 day discontinuance notices on the STB website. That Superliner stock can be used for 2d runs on several of the Chicago-East Coast routes, which fall in the 750 mile limit.

John_Perkowski wrote:I believe that what I'll call the "Amtrak Funding Caucus" can get to 218+51 without the LD "one a day" States anymore.

53..California _5..Connecticut _1..Delaware 18..Illinois _9..Indiana _9..Massachusetts 14..Michigan 12..New Jersey 27..New York 16..Ohio 18..Pennsylvania 11..Virginia 10..Washington

Bottom line is 203. That means these folk only have to find 15 votes to get a majority for Amtrak.

Two NEC states, MD and RI are not in the count. And Maine and Vermont as well.

R36 Combine Coach wrote:Two NEC states, MD and RI are not in the count. And Maine and Vermont as well.

I made a conscious choice not to count them. Make the case for counting them, please.

It's hard to believe they didn't apply for a waiver, but it's also hard to believe a route that sees two or so freights a day is "Very Dangerous."

I mean isn't it basically the Vermonter, EDPL and PLED? Maybe there might be one more if NECR is still interchanging at Miller's Falls.

eolesen wrote:Fear, uncertainty and doubt.... I suspect there's a big difference between discontinuing a state sponsored train vs. the Sunset. The states control both the Vermonter and the Ethan Allen. Amtrak might decide to stop operating without a waiver, but they can't stop the State from substituting another provider like what happened with the Hoosier State.

Good luck finding one. Metra in Chicago has a lot of equipment it owns outright or has on mortgage from the banks. Ditto a lot of the other services. You may get a freight railroad to provide manpower, but the State transportation department will end up buying cars, locomotives, and real estate. If you get a commuter railroad to provide service, only a foolish operator would not want the cost of new equipment to be factored into the Year One bid.

Good luck finding one. Metra in Chicago has a lot of equipment it owns outright or has on mortgage from the banks. Ditto a lot of the other services. You may get a freight railroad to provide manpower, but the State transportation department will end up buying cars, locomotives, and real estate. If you get a commuter railroad to provide service, only a foolish operator would not want the cost of new equipment to be factored into the Year One bid.

There's also the problem that host railroads like New England Central don't have to let non-Amtrak operators use their tracks.

The thing that truly burns me up is that PTC or no PTC, a passenger on the Vermonter is a lot safer than he would be behind the wheel of a car on I-91. Anderson's obsession with safety, if that's what it really is, is misplaced. More likely, I think, he just wants to cut costs by dismantling as much of Amtrak as he can.

bdawe wrote:I'd buy the SWC being the most cuttable . It's traditional routing requires dedicated tracks through Colorado & New Mexico used by no other regular passenger or freight service that bypass larger population centers in favor of smaller ones. In so far as it can be broken into corridors, it's Chicago - Kansas City (where the train still beats the interstate, but there's hardly anything between Chicago & KC) and not much else in terms of significant cities. It goes bypasses Wichita and Amarillo in exchange for La Junta and Trinidad. It climbs a steep mountain pass that doesn't so much as get the train out of the Great Plains, and passes hundreds of miles away from regional population centers in the Colorado Front Range or Phoenix. It brings services to all of one state that wouldn't otherwise have train service. As Amtrak routes go, it's probably the most sustained by the nostalgia of bygone days. It would seem to be the existing LD services that's the closest to being the sum of it's parts,

But the argument is really that most LD trains are less than the sum of their parts - that they could be carved up into independently useful corridors that abut eachother in a way that's not really the case with the South West Chief, which is far more of a transcontinental route than the others. Under present conditions, the SW Chief achieves ridership not disimilar to other Western LDs, but it's hard to imagine a world where people can fly in airplanes where the Chief has that many more riders than it does today at reasonable expense.

The SWC serves as the primary connection between CHI and LAX as well as the only train that serves Kansas City and Albuquerque. No one from Chicago or east coast would be able to go to LA (or would have a lot harder time getting to LA). I can think of a lot of other trains I'd get rid of before the Chief.

Most cuttable IMO is the Cardinal. You already have the LSL and CL for CHI-NYP and CHI-WAS, respectively. The only big city you lose is Cincinnati and they only have graveyard service right now anyway. NYP-Charlottesville is already served and Charlottesville-CIN is so remote no one outside that area cares about it.