Amtrak Vermonter / Montrealer

GirlOnTheTrain wrote:Alright, enough with the cab rides for profit thing...

You want to see overkill...how about when the Springfield shuttle is 2 locos and one car because they're short cab cars and they can't wye the train...but I digress...

Amtrak is never going to pander to some foamer fantasy for cab rides, no matter how revenue-starved they end up.

See that's really bad when that happens. And then you have a general shortage of P42 locomotives in general, which I am not sure how that happened either when you look back at the M&E days when the Southwest Chief and other Western long hauls ran regularly with 3 to 4 locomotives. I remember hearing a reason as to why the AEM7's were not made into cab cars, but frankly it never stuck.

Frankly Amtrak's New Haven line - as long as they are going to operate between New Haven and Springfield - would be ideal for an RDC or self-propelled train as long as it could have a coach in tow. This route once had them! If the PRR, New Haven, and other railroads could do this with "doodlebugs" no reason why it shouldn't and couldn't be done now. Why they couldn't perfect the SPV2000's is still a mystery for me. VIA Rail and some facility up in the Maritimes had RDC's which would have been perfect for this line - freeing up locomotives and Amfleets.

That was attempted by ConnDOT with the SPV-2000's,they did not last long on the NHV-Springfield run and were set up to
tacked on or cut off at New Haven as thru Springfield-DC service back then.
The SPV's were based on the Amfleet/Metroliner design,and were converted back to basic Amfleet cars retaining the
the Rad Roof bulge.

I think the short answer is 1) RDC's were cheaper than locomotive-hauled. The N-S DMU's are more expensive than locomotive-hauled. 2) Amtrak doesn't seem to want to scrounge around for used RDCs. 3) Apparently there is some regulations that require RDC/DMUs to be treated as locomotives, requiring more frequent inspection thingy that is a cost.

I think there is a niche for a class of smaller engines pulling short consists for shuttles / "branch lines" / off-peak, such as some of the service on this line.

Believe the final intent is to bring back the NHV-BOS "inland route" service,as ConnDOT's NHV-Hartford-Springfield service
starts up and gets up to full deployment on the NHV-Springfield route.
As a option,Seimens should develop a Roadswitcher design engine(based off the BL-20 GH used by MN/ConnDOT)
for use on the "inland route" and as a replacement for the GP38-3's and MP-15's used as NEC work power.
That would keep the remaining P 40/42's and the Chargers on the LD's and Regional services,then tied up
on covering the "inland route" service.

Hmm. Let's see. The New Haven Railroad used to run multiple through conventional trains between Springfield and Grand Central Terminal every day. So how did they turn the equipment back then? There is a way, and that involves backing west on the CSX, going south, then backing north into the station, if I'm not mistaken.

Rockingham Racer wrote:. So how did they turn the equipment back then? There is a way, and that involves backing west on the CSX, going south, then backing north into the station, if I'm not mistaken.

Have not been there in years but thought that the B&A tracks west of the B&M track crossing immediately goes onto a bridge over the Connecticut river. did not think that there were wye legs west of the B&M tracks ? But know that the tracks west of Springfield station has leg going south to connect with the B&M. Due to confusion from different posts do not know if the leg west of station is still there that leads directly to the B&M tracks north bound ? If still there would enable turning trains but Amtrak would have to deal with CSX twice to make that turning. Once to go east onto CSX and then back onto the northbound B & M track and then cross the CSX line going south then backing into the Springfield station.

The leg to the B & M northbound track will certainly be needed if BOS - Montreal service is ever started ?

Here's Google 2016 imagery showing the west end of Springfield station and track configuration at the bridge and Con River line.

https://goo.gl/maps/yeMXhLkr4xB2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you check the schedule, you'll see that Amtrak still runs a daily through train with Amfleet equipment between Washington and Springfield; weekdays it's #148 northbound and #141 southbound. That trainset uses the wyes west of the station to reverse direction during its Springfield layover.

NS VIA FAN wrote:Here's Google 2016 imagery showing the west end of Springfield station and track configuration at the bridge and Con River line.

https://goo.gl/maps/yeMXhLkr4xB2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The track connecting the ex-B&M (left on map) and ex-NH (right on map) crosses CSX under the I-91 bridge. You can see both ends but not the crossing itself. There is a crossover between CSX tracks 1 and 2 a couple of city blocks north of the station, off the top of the map. A wye move ties up both CSX mains for the crossover move and the crossing move. There are no connections in the (railroad) SW and NW quadrants. The southbound Vermonter uses the connecting track off the ex-B&M to pull past the station and back in. Northbound it backs out before heading north.

Rockingham Racer wrote:Hmm. Let's see. The New Haven Railroad used to run multiple through conventional trains between Springfield and Grand Central Terminal every day. So how did they turn the equipment back then? There is a way, and that involves backing west on the CSX, going south, then backing north into the station, if I'm not mistaken.

The way it worked was, the NYNH&H would pull into Springfield Station, and then do a reverse move up the north leg of the wye (B&M), then head back south on the same connector track that runs under the highway and is still used mostly for EDPL/PLED. Interesting note: If you check out the link provided by NS VIA FAN on google maps, JUST south of the B&A between the highway and the Riverwalk, you'll see the remains of the NYNH&H roundhouse, there used to be a rather large yard complete with a large freight house.
Peace,
Jonathan

Did a roundtrip on the Vermonter on the 24th (SB) / 26th (NB) from WAB to NHV. A couple observations:

* A LOT of slow orders on NECR, especially the Roxbury Sub (ie - between Waterbury and Windsor). Some have been ongoing for years. Didn't see as prevelant heading NB, though.
* The connection between NECR and PAR registered at 30 mph, according to the AmtrakConnect map/speed tracker.
* Top speed between Northfield and Greenfield (MA) was 50 MPH, then 79 MPH from south of Greenfield to Northampton.
* Slow order in Northampton north of station, as a result of ped underpass construction
* Don't think we picked up any pax at Holyoke on either trip. Still some track work to take place here - nice new signals turned away from the track
* Backed into SPG SB and backed out of SPG NB with little delay
* Didn't get off in SPG as the stop was limited so couldn't really see platform construction details. We were about 30 min late SB and about 15 min late NB.
* Met a NB train in Hartford yard, and held on the new Track 2.
* Good progress being made on new commuter platforms at Berlin, Meriden, and Wallingford.
* Berlin Station... what a shame!
* Double track laid from Meriden south to North Haven, though not in service yet. ROW graded for 2nd track as far north as Windsor station area.
* The NB on the 26th actually removed a car at NHV during the power change. We left about 10 min late, then were delayed 10 min with a meet in North Haven.
* NB arrival into WAB on the 26 was 20 min late. SB arrival into NHV on the 24 was 40 min late. Barely made my SLE connection at NHV, but did have 15 min to spare (instead of 40)

Overall, a good trip. Just hope NECR can fix those slow orders and get timekeeping a little better. And as time goes on, the Springfield Line meets will be lessened as the line is double-tracked. A few pics here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/shadyjay/ ... 6934890750" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all!

I've always felt that Amtrak should lobby for a second crossover on the CSX line. This way trains could move from the far north track onto the second track then into the Amtrak station tracks without having to go down to the end of the station and back. From the maps, it looks like there is enough room to add a cross over, esp considering the speed limit in the station area is 30mph.

I'm a little puzzled about why CSX would put in an additional crossover just East of the Springfield station to save perhaps 5 minutes to accommodate one train/day being wyed? (141/148). As far as the Vermonter goes, it does not get wyed at Springfield, but continues in its north/south direction after stopping at Springfield. As the station tracks are aligned east/west, the only choice is to pull in forward and back out (northbound), or back in first and pull out forward (southbound).

Well, for 1, they would get it for free from Amtrak/MA.

I'm thinking forward to the future though, easier access to the Conn River line for when they want to begin running the Springfield shuttles up to Greenfield

https://vtdigger.org/2017/01/16/pre-cle ... ler-train/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With the recent enactment of a federal law penned by U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., Vermont is one step closer to reviving Amtrak train service between Burlington and Montreal.
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The Promoting Travel, Commerce, and National Security Act will allow the U.S. to expand the number of pre-clearance customs facilities in Canada, including two potential projects that would streamline transportation between Vermont and Canada.
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To revive the Amtrak train route between Vermont and Canada — known colloquially as the Montrealer — a good deal more work is required.
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Delabruere added that while Vermont’s rail line between St. Albans and Canada was recently rehabilitated as part of a larger federal grant, sections of rail in Canada are in need of improvement before the train can run.

He also said there are a few union issues that need to ironed out regarding who will work the inter-country line before the line can be revived.
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American citizens going to Canada will be able to board the train up until the St. Albans stop. The train is then expected to run from St. Albans to Montreal without stopping. Americans would pass through Canadian customs in Montreal before leaving the train station.

Canadians coming to Vermont would go through the U.S. preclearance site in Montreal, before taking the train into the Green Mountain Stop. They would then be free to exit the train on any stop, starting with St. Albans.
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