Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:55 am I don't think Ronk service would be quite express; you'd have a stop at Jamaica for sure.

Montauk would definitely need upgrades, passing sidings and such.

Ronk-Hicksville-Jamaica-NYP I think would be optimal in this case... but I can't see it until 2022 when the Main line is three tracked.

Montauk-Babylon-Jamaica-NYP? Needs three-tracking between Jamaica and Babylon... and double-tracking/full signaling to Montauk. I think significant parts of the Montauk are manual block territory.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:01 am Montauk-Babylon-Jamaica-NYP? Needs three-tracking between Jamaica and Babylon... and double-tracking/full signaling to Montauk. I think significant parts of the Montauk are manual block territory.

No way would you need to double-track all the way to Montauk. There are only 6 round trips a day east of Speonk. You could triple the number and still operate over the existing single-track line, which I believe has quite a few sidings already.

That's aside from the fact that taking land in the Hamptons with eminent domain seems... unlikely to succeed.

The real advantage with anything out to LI, whether it terminates in Ronk or Montauk is the lack of a need for a transfer within NYP.

I'm not sure if the stretch east of Babylon or Patchogue is manual block, signaled, or has PTC in any way shape or form. Does it have any freight traffic from NYAR? I think if your running Amtrak out there, ACSES/PTC is probably required.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:01 am

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:55 am I don't think Ronk service would be quite express; you'd have a stop at Jamaica for sure.

Montauk would definitely need upgrades, passing sidings and such.

Ronk-Hicksville-Jamaica-NYP I think would be optimal in this case... but I can't see it until 2022 when the Main line is three tracked.

Montauk-Babylon-Jamaica-NYP? Needs three-tracking between Jamaica and Babylon... and double-tracking/full signaling to Montauk. I think significant parts of the Montauk are manual block territory.

Realistically, by the time they get all of the approvals, the Main Line third track will have been constructed.

It would be nice if they grade-separated some of the busier Ronkonkoma Branch crossings as part of this project.

I saw all this Long Island talk and thought it was a tangent until I went back and checked the map. ... "My G-d they're proposing through service from Long Island" ...

I honestly feel sorry for the Florida Gulf Coast. They are the only corridor that missed out this time.

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Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:22 am The real advantage with anything out to LI, whether it terminates in Ronk or Montauk is the lack of a need for a transfer within NYP.

I'm not sure if the stretch east of Babylon or Patchogue is manual block, signaled, or has PTC in any way shape or form. Does it have any freight traffic from NYAR? I think if your running Amtrak out there, ACSES/PTC is probably required.

If I remember from LIRR’s PTCIP they were putting ACSES everywhere. Where they didn’t have cab signals but did have Manual block or automatic block signals they were going to install wayside interface units on the blocks/signals that would communicate with the ACSES positive stop via data radio like what is done with interlockings in typical ACSES+ATC areas to provide a limited form of positive train separation . On the completely Unsignaled portions they were going to still install the transponders for ACSES civil speed enforcement and enforcement of TSRs.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:33 pm I honestly feel sorry for the Florida Gulf Coast. They are the only corridor that missed out this time.

The state gov't chose to leave it to Brightline. It's closed for the virus, but under construction as we speak.

Brightline will get it done in half the time with none of the drama....

Article I mentioned before with critical commentary.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amtrak-wan ... 1617541200

https://www.cato.org/blog/amtraks-money-losing-vision and the full response of Randal.

Ironically if you've read some of Mr. O'Toole's previous commentary he AGREES with many advocate railfans on Amtrak accounting - that the accounting is structured to make the Northeast Corridor look profitable when it really does not if you factor in the infrastructure costs. But his conclusion is that Amtrak should be abolished entirely.

Lord, over at "that other site" where you still remain in good standing, I get sick and tired of that "great wise financial professional" from Ithaca NY proclaiming that Amtrak Accounting is "fraudulent". Fraudulent of course because he is an LD advocate (and I'm clearly not) and he is certain that Amtrak's internal Responsibility Accounting system gives the LD's the "shaft".

Amtrak's Financial Statements are audited by an independent firm (FY 20 - "uh, not too pretty"). While an independent audit calls for an evaluation of the auditee's Internal Control, allocations of expenses by the Responsibility Accounting system are the purview of the Company's Internal Audit (that's the IG in Amtrakland) activities.

There isn't an industry out there is which somebody will not feel "shafted" by the Responsibility Accounting system, but all the tripe that the LD advocates learn about such as "Snow Removal in Miami" or the part applied to an electric locomotive that ended up charged against an LD Diesel, are simply immaterial in nature and scope.

Here is a very interesting development regarding the proposed American Jobs Plan Act:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgntp

Fair Use:

The Senate parliamentarian has advised that a revised budget resolution can include reconciliation instructions, opening a path for Democrats to pass spending legislation by a simple majority vote, an aide for Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said Monday. Budget reconciliation, a parliamentary procedure to bypass the two-thirds requirement for legislation, was used to pass President Biden's $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan….

All told, if this position stands, Joe will get what he wants; and the Republicans cannot force by Filibuster a 60 vote Cloture rule.

Oh well, so much for compromise that Joe talked about during the campaign.

Not so fast.

The other Joe (Manchin D-WV) is on record as saying he's a No vote based on the proposed corporate tax rate hike from 21% to 28%.

Without Manchin, it fails. He's supporting 25%, which is just over half of what was being proposed, and would presumably push the payback on this out to 25+ years. Of all the possible dissenters on this bill, I'd say his vote is the one that matters most.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/man ... ture-bill/

Nobody on the right believed compromise would actually happen, so he's not disappointing anyone except for the moderates who thought he would.

kitchin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:06 pm

gokeefe wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:33 pm I honestly feel sorry for the Florida Gulf Coast. They are the only corridor that missed out this time.

The state gov't chose to leave it to Brightline. It's closed for the virus, but under construction as we speak.

Where Florida missed out:

Sunset East, or at least, an extension of the Mobile service. Interesting aside: if you look at the system maps for the Sunset, there was no service east of NO in 1971, connecting bus in 1981, and rail service in 1993 (including service south from Birmingham - Mobile - NO).

They also served St. Pete at least in 71, although it's hard to distinguish on the 83 map.

Forget the FEC... that's Brightline domain.

A service from Jax to Tallahassee and the beaches might make sense. At that point, you're not that far from Pensacola. Since that's no longer CSX domain...

I think Amtrak may be supplanted by Brightline in Florida depending upon their ultimate success, although they'll probably maintain the two Silver services and their sleeper services. I see the Star being truncated to Tampa at a minimum.

I was under the impression that the private services were listed on the map, as they'll be complementary to Amtrak Service. That is certainly Brightline West going to Vegas.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:33 pm I saw all this Long Island talk and thought it was a tangent until I went back and checked the map. ... "My G-d they're proposing through service from Long Island" ...

I honestly feel sorry for the Florida Gulf Coast. They are the only corridor that missed out this time.

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I don't really see how you'd run a corridor operation down the Gulf Coast of FL. Unlike the Atlantic side, the population centers on the Gulf are clustered around Tampa Bay and then the Fort Myers/Naples area. And there's no direct line down the coast that links them. The SAL dead-ended at Venice before being cut back to Sarasota in the 90's. The line south from Ft. Myers to Naples was cut back to Bonita Springs years ago. And so far as I know there was never a direct connection between Tampa and Ft. Myers along the line of I-75 or the Tamiami Trail.