Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

Is anyone else concerned or interested about some of Amtrak's proposed routes or at least increased service frequencies, specifically Miami to Orlando and Tampa, Dallas to Houston, and St. Paul to Duluth, are in direct competition with proposed or existing privately owned routes (Brightline, Texas Central Railway and Northern Lights Express respectively)? I think this might play a role in those lines in particular starting service as well. As a Long Island railfan, I wouldn't mind Amtrak going to Ronkonkoma as an express service to DC or Albany, as mentioned in a previous proposal about 2 years ago. I don't think Montauk is included in this map since the ROW between Patchogue and Montauk is Single Tracked, and there would have to be numerous improvements made by the LIRR for service on the somewhat busy branch.

I seriously doubt NLX was ever going to be a private entity.

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Tampa - MIA needs a morning departure to SE Florida and a late return from SE Florida. That allows passengers to make same day connections to / from cruise ships if the cruise lines can survive C19 shutdowns.

WashingtonPark wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:58 am Here in New Jersey we've already spent 500 million dollars in studies for an 18 mile light rail line that hasn't had a shovel full of dirt moved.

Virginia spent $250m in no time on studies for a pretty simple highway project, upgrading a 4-laner that parallels NS from Suffolk to Petersburg. The next governor cancelled it.

Looking at the EIS for the DC-Balto maglev, those documents are a real Christmas tree of different types of requirements for analyses that have been added over the years. And for all that, you're left to make common sense of it on your own. So the plan is to demolish the closest short-term parking deck to BWI and rebuild it a couple hundred feet further away? When the train is in a tunnel anyway? Not to mention BWI needs a people mover from Amtrak/MARC. Some things do get listed with alternatives and a pretty natural discussion.

All in all I can't say any particular analysis in the EIS is unnecessary, and it provides transparency. Expensive though.

John_Perkowski wrote:

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:05 am As I told two friends this morning like almost every transportation bill there is a lot of maybes and possibles thrown into the bill to get the needed things done. The viability (not profitable but something a state will pay for down the road) of many of these enhancements is optimistic at best.

I think most of these enhancements in the east coast states are viable long term. Elsewhere I am quite skeptical.

I’ve said for years, I say now, and I will keep saying:

218+51+1

No votes, no action.

Also: Authorizations are not appropriations. The money has to be there, or the projects cannot be bid.

John_Perkowski wrote:

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:05 amThe viability (not profitable but something a state will pay for down the road) of many of these enhancements is optimistic at best.

I think most of these enhancements in the east coast states are viable lon
Also: Authorizations are not appropriations. The money has to be there, or the projects cannot be bid.

Similar to the recent stimulus bill this legislation is in fact appropriations and not merely authorizations.

With regards to state funding I would not be surprised to see an effort undertaken to revise those formulas in favor of the states.



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Yes they are appropriations but you still can't spend money on a project awaiting the normal blue tape such as environmental studies, bidding etc.

Nor can a route magically appear without a state coming up with their share according to the existing laws... if Federal funding is 80%, all a State has to do is say no to their 20% and its dead.

Under ARRA, the criteria was "shovel ready" and look how that turned out...

The only sure way of spending the $80B would be to start expanding the existing options with Siemens into orders for locomotives and single level equipment. That's probably a lot safer, too. Equipment is portable when a routes state funding doesn't materialize....

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With the MBTA upgrading around Cape Cod I was hoping to see some sort of Amtrak train back to the Cape.

I can’t find the article it was in but one article had a quote from frequent Amtrak critic Randal O’Toole blasting the pending infrastructure stimulus and the $80 billion for Amtrak and the money for other transit. Not totally surprising though given his point of view is essentially that he believes that all subsidized rail transportation and rapid transit should be abolished and replaced with buses with the exception of the New York subway and maybe some New York commuter rail. His proposals have included abolishing the northeast corridor and replacing it with highway lanes for bus service. But still interesting to hear another perspective - I’ll try to post if I can find it.

Some of these lines seem more suited for some type of commuter rail (e.g. Cheyenne - Pueblo could be run by Denver RTD, Rockford could be run by Chicago Metra, Concord could be run by MBTA). Nice to see Allentown included, but I think it would be even better to have it extended down to Reading, Lancaster, and York). It would be nice to see the Scranton Line extended up to Binghamton or maybe even Syracuse.

For Ronkonkoma, what's interesting is I don't see this plan mentioned (https://riverheadnewsreview.timesreview ... northeast/), for a connection to Connecticut. Not sure if the other one is a study that local officials are going to try to push Amtrak to implemented.

None of the extensions that I saw are suitable for commuter. You need far higher frequencies than what those routes are going to have initially. These extensions of intercity service *will* have the effect of serving as a potential backbone for future commuter service on some corridors (Atlanta).

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Amtrak Ronkonkoma service has some interesting ideas. Part of it is the HSR and a possible LI-Sound tunnel. I think one of the things would be Ronk to the Poconos for Ski Trips during the winter. In the summer Jitney's could meet the train for transfers to the east end. I'd love to see P32s with a string of Amfleets at Montauk, but the line needs more passing sidings, or just more double track to make that acceptable.

kitchin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:07 am Politically it's serving places all over the country. Aside from Alabama and Florida, I wonder how many state ruling parties don't want it.

A decade ago, The Kansas passenger rail lobby didn’t know how to lobby. They had one house sewn up. The other...not even. Then Sam Brownback became Governor, and the window of opportunity slammed shut.

gokeefe wrote:None of the extensions that I saw are suitable for commuter.

Chicago-Rockford should be commuter but thanks to how commuter rail is taxed in Illinois, that won't happen.

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https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/fed ... a278b4969c

This is the one I'm most excited about, although certainly there are others that are worthy.

MACON, Ga. — Part of President Biden's new infrastructure plan includes expanding the rail system across the country, which could include a stop here in Macon where the suspected hub would be Terminal Station.

The rail expansion would be part of Amtrak's 15-year plan. In a release, the company shows a map that includes three stops across Georgia; including Atlanta, Macon, and Savannah.
...
The plan includes a new route with start and endpoints in Nashville, Tennessee, to Savannah, with stops in between in Chattanooga, Atlanta, and Macon.
...

Atlanta, being a Delta hub, is the main connection point for Savannah. Of course, it had been much busier before, now they're flying Embraer's. Nevertheless, it's a huge market through Atlanta and it's choked highways.

Georgia DOT had done a study years ago about intrastate rail; this was a route, at least as far as Macon.

I do think they'd need more than a stop at Macon, though, whilst not making this a commuter train. An airport stop, although at one or two a day, who's going to bite?

There's also Georgia Southern University in Statesboro. The closest rail is Dover (a banjo playing hamlet) a former stop on the Nancy Hanks.

And what about Savannah? The current stop is on the SCL in an industrial area. They really need to get downtown, and much of that track is gone/disconnected.

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:27 pm Is anyone else concerned or interested about some of Amtrak's proposed routes or at least increased service frequencies, specifically Miami to Orlando and Tampa, Dallas to Houston, and St. Paul to Duluth, are in direct competition with proposed or existing privately owned routes (Brightline, Texas Central Railway and Northern Lights Express respectively)? I think this might play a role in those lines in particular starting service as well. As a Long Island railfan, I wouldn't mind Amtrak going to Ronkonkoma as an express service to DC or Albany, as mentioned in a previous proposal about 2 years ago. I don't think Montauk is included in this map since the ROW between Patchogue and Montauk is Single Tracked, and there would have to be numerous improvements made by the LIRR for service on the somewhat busy branch.

I don't think Ronk service would be quite express; you'd have a stop at Jamaica for sure.

Montauk would definitely need upgrades, passing sidings and such.