Adirondack Scenic Railroad (ADIX) Discussion - 2012

Lake Lila primitive area is much more easily accessed by train than car. The drive in to the trail-head can be tedious. The tracks go right trough though with access to hiking trails and camp sites (oh and the Nehasane station still stands). The area around Horseshoe Lake is the same story. Miles away from Rt 30 but the tracks go right trough. Same can be said for the Big Moose and Floodwood areas. OK that's four. Probably many others.

Scenic/Sightseeing railroads can not be held to the same "transportation" standards as Amtrak would be. Most people who ride do not mind the extra time as the scenery is part of the experience. It is not just point A to B transportation, even though it will also serve that purpose.

You can not say that the "Rail Marketing Period" is over. The rail line has not been up to proper standards the whole time the state has owned it, therefore has never been able to show its full potential. It has it's best chance under the current Adirondack Scenic/Adirondack Railway Preservation Society. Compair the tracks between Snow Junction and Thendara to the rest of the line to see what can be accomplished. Let's not abandon the ship after it's only half built. If the line is returned to full service and no further economic benefit is realized and the whole thing is a flop (it won't be), then it might be time to talk about a trail. You'll have a better surface for a trail base too. I still see it unlikely that the NYSDOT will give up the only rail line through the heart of the Adirondacks. Start thinking of ways that a restored railroad can be a benefit to your trail group.

I can easily see snowmobile on train service from Utica to points north. You could get dropped off in Beaver River for the weekend and wouldn't have to worry about carring enough gas to get in there and back. You can simply enjoy the area you get dropped off in and then get picked up and taken back. Sure it probably won't be overwhemingly popular, but it would be a nich sevice that many people would benefit from.

Oh yeah. And ask the people of North Creek what an economic benefit having restored, connected rail service has been in just one year.

O.K., so I can't just sit back and wait for a decision.

I would like to see a possible timetable for rail service to the trail/canoe access points mentioned in the earlier post. You admit that all are accessible by road, so the question is whether rail access governed by a timetable is better than the not-really-that-long drives where users are free to determine their own schedule. Would this be a separate service out of Tupper Lake, or would it be part of service from Utica to Lake Placid?

Secondly, if you read the UMP closely, the phrase "rail marketing period" was the period in which to find an operator who could comply with the stated funding goal. "RAIL DEVELOPMENT WILL LARGELY DEPEND ON PRIVATELY SECURED FUNDING SOURCES BECAUSE, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE POTENTIAL PUBLIC SOURCES, GOVERNMENT FUNDING AVAILABILITY CANNOT BE GUARANTEED. To date, no operator has been able to come forward with a plan to restore the railroad that will, "depend largely on privately secured funding sources." All expansion of rail service has been at taxpayer expense to the tune of $32 million dollars. And now the railroad wants anywhere between the Stone study of $16 million and the DOT report of $43 million to supposedly "finish" the job. Clearly private enterprise has not met the original intent of the phrase, "rail marketing period."

The Adirondack Scenic has a "Buy a Tie" program in place that has generated private funds. While I don't have the numbers the program has been operating for 17 years or so. My family and I have been contributing to it for most of time it has been around. I will say the railroad needs to advertise the program more. Next Stop! Tupper Lake is also raising private funds to buy ties. While the percentage may be small, private funds have contributed to the restoration of track. Just remember there is a lot of track. At 118 miles with a tie every two feet and 5280 feet in a mile that adds up to 311,520 ties between Snow Junction and Lake Placid, not including sidings. Now consider that over 40 miles of track have been rehabilitated already with both public and private money (that's over 105,600 not including spot replacement between Thendara and Saranac Lake) and the task of completing the project doesn't seem that out of reach. With two not-for-profits now working towards that goal (ARPS and Next Stop!) more private funding will come in. It does not need to all come from New York State, although the State does need to do their part as it is their property. Let's get the trains running between Tupper Lake and Saranac Lake and from Thendara to Beaver River as a start. Then work towards closing the gap as a phase two.

You guys are helping Tony Dumbas with more info than he could get in most places. If you want to win the war, ignore this guy and let him go off and find a new group to piss off. He is getting everyone on the site going and you guys keep giving him the information to get him where he wants to go. This is a PRO RAIL site last time I checked and I see no reason to fall into his crap trap. I have a good reason to see that the line stays and I ask that you just go over what the railroad is doing and not let Tony fan the flames. Thank you!

JJ-

traingeek8223 wrote:The Adirondack Scenic has a "Buy a Tie" program in place that has generated private funds. While I don't have the numbers the program has been operating for 17 years or so. My family and I have been contributing to it for most of time it has been around. I will say the railroad needs to advertise the program more. Next Stop! Tupper Lake is also raising private funds to buy ties. While the percentage may be small, private funds have contributed to the restoration of track. Just remember there is a lot of track. At 118 miles with a tie every two feet and 5280 feet in a mile that adds up to 311,520 ties between Snow Junction and Lake Placid, not including sidings. Now consider that over 40 miles of track have been rehabilitated already with both public and private money (that's over 105,600 not including spot replacement between Thendara and Saranac Lake) and the task of completing the project doesn't seem that out of reach. With two not-for-profits now working towards that goal (ARPS and Next Stop!) more private funding will come in. It does not need to all come from New York State, although the State does need to do their part as it is their property. Let's get the trains running between Tupper Lake and Saranac Lake and from Thendara to Beaver River as a start. Then work towards closing the gap as a phase two.

Couple Questions:

Where can I find information on the Buy-A-Tie program?

What are the roughest stretches of track between Big Moose and Saranac Lake? Do any rails on the stretch need replacement?

By "Spot Replacement", Does that mean the worst ties are replaced here and there and the better ones kept in place? That's how they did the tie replacement down here on the NYS&W Utica Division during the 2003 Rehabilitation.

Sorry if I sound clueless...Just curious on a few things.

Alek S

Just searched their website ( http://adirondackrr.com ) and I can find no info on the Buy-A-Tie program. Like I said, it needs more promoting. I would contact the railroad directly to get more information.

In 2001 in preparation for the restoration of service between Saranac Lake and Lake Placid, the tracks between Thendara and Saranac received "spot work" to make them passable for equipment to move between the two points. This work included washout repair, bridge repair, and replacement of ties on a minimal basis.

I have a good reason to see that the line stays

I have a long vested interest in the line too. I just want people here to know the truth. The reason ARTA has gained support for their cause is they are playing on people's ignorance on the subject. If the topic is presented with all the facts and not just the ones they want shown, then the trail makes much less sense.

Thanks for the information. I'll look into it next time I am at Thendara.

Plus not trying to interrupt or end the debate going on regarding rails vs. trails, so keep going.

Alek S

lvrr325 wrote:The state pays taxes to the state on land owned by the state? Say what?

Yes, the state pays local property taxes on land in the Adirondacks. Otherwise many of the small towns would have an insufficient tax base given the sparse population. Little things like local schools, road plowing, road maintenance in the summer. It's just a political fiction; if the locality didn't get the tax dollars, the state would just have to step in to provide the services.

Just a point of clarification. The state does NOT pay taxes on the Preserve, rather it does "Payment in lieu of taxes" at the tax rate set by the various districts, towns, villages etc. My understanding is that this isn't actually required, simply something they do to try and reduce drama with the communities in the North Country.

Following is a letter to the editor of the Albany Times Union. I fully agree with its content. Hope you all do too.

http://www.timesunion.com/opinion/artic ... 742006.php

Noel Weaver

I noticed that was written by our own Russ Nelson!

Well written, and I was thinking about how long the length of the "trail" would be
as well--how many miles would that be? Nice job, Mr. Nelson!

Charlie

I deliberately left off the name of the writer, I wondered how long it would take for somebody to notice, obviously not long. I second the motion, good job Russ Nelson.
Noel Weaver

<blush>

I just threw in that part about pulling the rails between Saranac and Placid to make my objections less harsh and more reasonable, but ... I wonder if the railroad might not get more business if it was at the end of a rail-trail?? Combine two attractions. Is that a crazy idea? Keep the museum in Placid; turn it into a trailhead. Run the excursion between Saranac and Tupper, with some stops along the way at Upper and Lower Saranac Lakes.

Aren't they proceding with plans for and Rail with Trail between Saranac and Placid? I thought I remember reading that some where. That seems like the section it would be most sucessful (and make the most sense). The right of way is for the most part wide enough to support it in this area, unlike the vast majority of the rest of the railroad.