Access to Trains in Boston

the process adds no security but does add some cushy usher jobs to thepayroll. the only place the process makes any sense is nyp

This is an old thread but we are covering the gating of trains in the Pre-Amtrak boarding procedures: lines, ticket checks, etc.? I can think of more than a few MBTA passengers boarding Amtrak trains and vice versa, particularly in tiny Back Bay, where on of the worst examples of a passenger being on the train when they weren't supposed to ultimately put two people in the hospital and ended up delaying 6 trains from Canton, Ma to Bridgeport ,CT.

However, this thread has more to do with boarding at a station that you're not ticketed for. With e-ticketing, I would board up line, but not too far down line from your ticketed reservation. BBY and BOS should work out, but I wouldn't attempt RTE as an example.

ThirdRail7 wrote:where on of the worst examples of a passenger being on the train when they weren't supposed to ultimately put two people in the hospital and ended up delaying 6 trains from Canton, Ma to Bridgeport ,CT.

What'd they do? Jump?

May have had a medical problem on board after finding out the 1st stop was in RI.

FP10 wrote:Jeez...

They pre-board at South Station because there are often several Amtrak trains laying over at a time, and they don't post the track number until 15 minutes or so before departure. If the weather isn't horrible (and sometimes even if it is) people start to que up on the platform a half hour before the track number is announced. The platforms are also directly accessible from the street, so if you're getting dropped off there is a good chance you will never have seen the board in the first place.

Typically there will be two or three Regionals, an Acela or two, and even the LSL sitting there, plus MBTA trains pulling in and out. Lots of opportunity for people to board the wrong train. Having someone check tickets is a lot easier than dealing with an Acela passenger on a Regional or vice versa, or worse someone getting on a train and taking a ride through the wash racks and into Widett Circle.

Back Bay and other through stations are different. The track is announced, it pulls up, people get on, and it pulls out. I doubt it has much of anything to do with security, although I guess while the train is sitting idle there is the chance for someone to sneak on and do something so it may be a small deterrent. I can't speak for the crew, but I assume its also easier for them to get their jobs done readying the train for departure without passengers boarding early, asking questions, and generally getting in the way.

It's been three years since I did a South Station commute, but I never recall ever seeing more than 3 Amtrak trains there at one time, and truly, rarely more than 1 Acela OR 1 Regional. I agree, folks do come in straight from the street and you can't see the board from there . . . but you can take 25 steps inside and see it.

Of course I was there 8-9AM and/or 4-6PM, so perhaps at other times there was more Amtrak activity there.

And at Back Bay there was never more than 1 Amtrak there at a time, and all Amtrak trains there (other than the LSL) would stop on Track 2.

FP10 wrote:They pre-board at South Station because there are often several Amtrak trains laying over at a time, and they don't post the track number until 15 minutes or so before departure. If the weather isn't horrible (and sometimes even if it is) people start to que up on the platform a half hour before the track number is announced.

The platforms are also directly accessible from the street, so if you're getting dropped off there is a good chance you will never have seen the board in the first place.

How do people queue 30 minutes before departure, if the track doesn't get announced until 15 minutes before?

Even if you bypass the waiting room and don't see the departure board, you'll still see these signs showing the destination of the train on each track: http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4051/4614 ... 2120_o.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FP10 wrote:Typically there will be two or three Regionals, an Acela or two, and even the LSL sitting there, plus MBTA trains pulling in and out. Lots of opportunity for people to board the wrong train. Having someone check tickets is a lot easier than dealing with an Acela passenger on a Regional or vice versa, or worse someone getting on a train and taking a ride through the wash racks and into Widett Circle.

When Amtrak departures from Boston are an hour more apart, how can someone end up on an Acela instead of a Regional? Do they leave the train doors open more than an hour before departure?

Do they prevent passengers from walking onto platforms holding trains that *aren't* currently boarding passengers (about to head to the service facility, or staged for a future departure)? That might make sense, but it's different from checking tickets for a train announced for boarding.

FP10 wrote:This happens all the time. I've been taking the train between BOS and NYP every three months or so going on a decade now. At last four times I've personally overheard conversation between the conductor and a confused passenger with an Metro North/MBTA/NJT ticket who has to get dumped off halfway down the line.

How is that possible if they do platform ticket checks at South Station and NYP? It sounds like the current procedures are as ineffective as they are annoying.

boblothrope wrote: How do people queue 30 minutes before departure, if the track doesn't get announced until 15 minutes before?

Many ways.
1) If you pick up a physical ticket, you can usually ask the attendant what track the train will be on. Even if it's not announced 9 times out of ten they already know.
2) You walk outside and look for the train that says "Amtrak" on it instead of "MBTA". Then you observe which train is facing the correct direction, whether its a regional or acela, and if there appear to be crew mulling around. Then, you stand there, and possibly ask a crew member if it is indeed your train. Drinks getting loaded and red caps are a dead giveaway.
3) You walk outside, and someone (or multiple people) have already done 1 or 2 and are standing there in line. You confirm with them what train it is and stand there yourself. I'm usually one of the first few people in line, and get asked all the time.

Either way, after three or so people are standing out there a large line begins to naturally form. Obviously not everyone boarding does this, but it is not atypical to see a crowd of 20 or so people waiting in line before the track is posted on the boards. Same way a handful of people watch the arrivals board at Penn and sneak downstairs via the exit concourse to beat the crowd and ticket check upstairs. No one wants to be at the back of the ticket check line and get stuck with a bad seat, so as soon as there is a sign of movement people queue up, regardless of if the train is posted yet.

boblothrope wrote:When Amtrak departures from Boston are an hour more apart, how can someone end up on an Acela instead of a Regional? Do they leave the train doors open more than an hour before departure?

Do they prevent passengers from walking onto platforms holding trains that *aren't* currently boarding passengers (about to head to the service facility, or staged for a future departure)? That might make sense, but it's different from checking tickets for a train announced for boarding.

2159 and 93 leave within 15 minutes of each other. 173 and 2163 depart within 10 minutes of each other, while 190 is arriving. Not all passengers can visually identify the difference between a Regional and Acela consist. And yes, I've seen doors left open, especially on a train that just arrived. They are usually also open on trains that will depart soon so red caps can pre-board their special needs passengers, crew can come and go, etc. The platform is typically not blocked off unless a train is about to depart, but usually the retractable queue things are on a bunch of platforms, in various states of extension.

boblothrope wrote:How is that possible if they do platform ticket checks at South Station and NYP? It sounds like the current procedures are as ineffective as they are annoying.

Because they don't do ticket checks at all the stations in between?

Rbts Stn wrote:It's been three years since I did a South Station commute, but I never recall ever seeing more than 3 Amtrak trains there at one time, and truly, rarely more than 1 Acela OR 1 Regional. I agree, folks do come in straight from the street and you can't see the board from there . . . but you can take 25 steps inside and see it.

Of course I was there 8-9AM and/or 4-6PM, so perhaps at other times there was more Amtrak activity there.

And at Back Bay there was never more than 1 Amtrak there at a time, and all Amtrak trains there (other than the LSL) would stop on Track 2.

I usually leave between 10 and noon, and there are usually more than just the two trains scheduled for departure on the platforms. If there weren't, I wouldn't ask a member of the crew if it was indeed the correct train, and I wouldn't have written all this anecdotal evidence. It seems to usually be more than one Acela, which makes it more confusing since if the lights aren't on you can't tell which way its "facing". When I used to leave earlier in the morning, it was rare to see more than one or two Amtrak trains at the platform. The few times I left right at rush hour, the train backed in only a minute or two before it was called. At slower times of the day they seem to just leave equipment on the platform.

As for back bay, that's my point. It's not confusing because there is very rarely more than a train or two boarding, they aren't just sitting there on the platform tempting passengers to walk onto them.

FP10 wrote:

boblothrope wrote: How do people queue 30 minutes before departure, if the track doesn't get announced until 15 minutes before?

Many ways.
1) If you pick up a physical ticket, you can usually ask the attendant what track the train will be on. Even if it's not announced 9 times out of ten they already know.
2) You walk outside and look for the train that says "Amtrak" on it instead of "MBTA". Then you observe which train is facing the correct direction, whether its a regional or acela, and if there appear to be crew mulling around. Then, you stand there, and possibly ask a crew member if it is indeed your train. Drinks getting loaded and red caps are a dead giveaway.
3) You walk outside, and someone (or multiple people) have already done 1 or 2 and are standing there in line. You confirm with them what train it is and stand there yourself. I'm usually one of the first few people in line, and get asked all the time.

Either way, after three or so people are standing out there a large line begins to naturally form. Obviously not everyone boarding does this, but it is not atypical to see a crowd of 20 or so people waiting in line before the track is posted on the boards. Same way a handful of people watch the arrivals board at Penn and sneak downstairs via the exit concourse to beat the crowd and ticket check upstairs. No one wants to be at the back of the ticket check line and get stuck with a bad seat, so as soon as there is a sign of movement people queue up, regardless of if the train is posted yet.

I don't understand the bolded

Rbts Stn wrote:

FP10 wrote:

boblothrope wrote: How do people queue 30 minutes before departure, if the track doesn't get announced until 15 minutes before?

Many ways.
1) If you pick up a physical ticket, you can usually ask the attendant what track the train will be on. Even if it's not announced 9 times out of ten they already know.
2) You walk outside and look for the train that says "Amtrak" on it instead of "MBTA". Then you observe which train is facing the correct direction, whether its a regional or acela, and if there appear to be crew mulling around. Then, you stand there, and possibly ask a crew member if it is indeed your train. Drinks getting loaded and red caps are a dead giveaway.
3) You walk outside, and someone (or multiple people) have already done 1 or 2 and are standing there in line. You confirm with them what train it is and stand there yourself. I'm usually one of the first few people in line, and get asked all the time.

Either way, after three or so people are standing out there a large line begins to naturally form. Obviously not everyone boarding does this, but it is not atypical to see a crowd of 20 or so people waiting in line before the track is posted on the boards. Same way a handful of people watch the arrivals board at Penn and sneak downstairs via the exit concourse to beat the crowd and ticket check upstairs. No one wants to be at the back of the ticket check line and get stuck with a bad seat, so as soon as there is a sign of movement people queue up, regardless of if the train is posted yet.

I don't understand the bolded

Since they don't operate push-pull Amtrak trains (I have no idea about MBTA), if the engine is facing the station, it's arrived, and will only head to the yard. If it's at the end further from the station, it's more likely a scheduled train leaving in the near future.

whether this has any meaning.....
I've been on 2151 (5:10a departure) 4 times over that last 3 months. When I arrived at the main doors of South Station at 04:30 the guard would not anyone into the station - even in bad weather. Twice I waited and he only let us in at 04:50 get thru the station - get a ticket if necessary, and use the facilities if necessary. The last two times i followed the lead of some locals who went around the station and entered thru the platform end. There were all ready people waiting inside and the breakfast concession stand had been open since 04:30. Sowhat is the issie here? Is the front door lock an Amtrak issue or an MBTA issue?

p.s. there are usually 3 Acela train sets at the platforms at that time

ajp wrote:p.s. there are usually 3 Acela train sets at the platforms at that time

Yeah, several Acelas lay over in the station overnight.

Greg Moore wrote:

Rbts Stn wrote:

FP10 wrote:

boblothrope wrote: How do people queue 30 minutes before departure, if the track doesn't get announced until 15 minutes before?

Many ways.
1) If you pick up a physical ticket, you can usually ask the attendant what track the train will be on. Even if it's not announced 9 times out of ten they already know.
2) You walk outside and look for the train that says "Amtrak" on it instead of "MBTA". Then you observe which train is facing the correct direction, whether its a regional or acela, and if there appear to be crew mulling around. Then, you stand there, and possibly ask a crew member if it is indeed your train. Drinks getting loaded and red caps are a dead giveaway.
3) You walk outside, and someone (or multiple people) have already done 1 or 2 and are standing there in line. You confirm with them what train it is and stand there yourself. I'm usually one of the first few people in line, and get asked all the time.

Either way, after three or so people are standing out there a large line begins to naturally form. Obviously not everyone boarding does this, but it is not atypical to see a crowd of 20 or so people waiting in line before the track is posted on the boards. Same way a handful of people watch the arrivals board at Penn and sneak downstairs via the exit concourse to beat the crowd and ticket check upstairs. No one wants to be at the back of the ticket check line and get stuck with a bad seat, so as soon as there is a sign of movement people queue up, regardless of if the train is posted yet.

I don't understand the bolded

Since they don't operate push-pull Amtrak trains (I have no idea about MBTA), if the engine is facing the station, it's arrived, and will only head to the yard. If it's at the end further from the station, it's more likely a scheduled train leaving in the near future.

Ahhh. I don't recall seeing any engine first trains at South Station, but I guess they don't stay there that long as they must turn them.

Of course Acelas are all push-pull

Rbts Stn wrote: Of course Acelas are all push-pull

Not really. They have a power car at each end.

Generally when folks refer to push-pull they mean some sort of non-powered car at one end.

ajp wrote:whether this has any meaning.....
I've been on 2151 (5:10a departure) 4 times over that last 3 months. When I arrived at the main doors of South Station at 04:30 the guard would not anyone into the station - even in bad weather. Twice I waited and he only let us in at 04:50 get thru the station - get a ticket if necessary, and use the facilities if necessary. The last two times i followed the lead of some locals who went around the station and entered thru the platform end. There were all ready people waiting inside and the breakfast concession stand had been open since 04:30. So what is the issie here? Is the front door lock an Amtrak issue or an MBTA issue?

According to this link: http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentSe ... e&code=BOS, the Station and QuickTrak machine are open 24 hours, the Ticket Office opens at 4:45 a.m. on weekdays.

I can vouch that South Station is definitely not open 24 hours. I've been kicked out late at night by a security guard before. We stopped in for the restroom around 1 am and he confronted us, saying the station was closed, then escorted us to the restrooms and then out the door.

I can't imagine they wouldn't let you in the building until 4:50 though, considering the first outbound MBTA departure is #501 to Worcester, which leaves South Station at 4:20 AM