56th Street Station Horror Story (Photography Issue)

Well, my day started with the ride into 30th Street Station on the R2 from Marcus Hook. I bought a day pass upon my arrival, then proceeded to the Rt. 11 Subway-Surface trolley, and waited for what seemed like 30 minutes for the Rt. 11 trolley to FINALLY arrive. I took the trolley to 67th Street to pick up my friend, only to find out he wasn't there! BIG waste of time! I was POed!!! Then I returned back to 30th Street and boarded the MFL to the shiny brand new 56th Street Station. Standing at the storm door window in the front car, I started snapping away as the train approached the gleaming new station. I continued taking pictures of the platform after I got off the train. So far, so good as far as that's concerned, until I was in the mezzanine. I passed through the turnstile and commented to the token booth clerk about how beautiful the station looked. I then started to proceed with taking pictures of the mezzanine, and before I was even to snap one picture, the token booth clerk signaled for me not to take pictures. I walked over, and he said that I need a permit, and I told him that I've been covering the El construction from start to finish, and that I am a railfan. Then I said that I'm probably not the only one passing though and taking pictures of the new station, then I told him that he is probably telling me that because HE doesn't want to be in the picture. It almost ended up in a shouting match between me and him. I was about to tell him to f*** off, then start snapping away to my heart's content, because I was already p***d off about my friend. I could see what kind of day this is going to be! I then went down to the street and I asked a transit police officer about taking pictures, and told him what the token booth clerk told me. He said it's all for security reasons, especially in the wake of 9/11 and the train bombings in Spain. He said of coarse that I don't look like a terrorist, but the rules are that I have to get a permit from Customer Service in order to take pictures on the system. Now, since when did SEPTA have zero tolerance on photography??? This is a brand new station, and I'm sure there have been countless people photographing it from every possible angle, inside and out. What is SEPTA's photography policy, and how much do the enforce it???

I'm no expert, but from what I've read on professional photography forums, this is an issue only in SEPTA's head. If the public can see something, you can photograph it. Period. They may not LIKE you taking photographs, but there is no law which allows then to stop you. I take photographs, too, and if somebody tries to stop me, I will tell them that I don't think that I'm violating any law, but if they wish to arrest me, I will cooperate with them. That makes it clear that my intent is to obey the law, but it also raises the bar for any action on their part.

Getting pissed off at a token booth clerk is no way to make friends. Why did you even go over and talk to the token clerk? They could care less what you think of the station.

As far as I know SEPTA does not have a documented photo permit process. If they do, they don't enforce it, since I have never been stopped or questioned by operators, inspectors, or police.

Remember, you behavior reflects on ALL railfans. Your little outbust could end up causing problems for all of us down the road. Instead of getting pissed off, did you ask the clerk how to obtain a permit? That probably would have ended the conversation there. If not, just WALK AWAY and come and take your pictures another day.

Seriously.

-otto-

Are you gonna upload the photos?

SubwayTim wrote: I bought a day pass upon my arrival, then proceeded to the Rt. 11 Subway-Surface trolley, and waited for what seemed like 30 minutes for the Rt. 11 trolley to FINALLY arrive.

All of the Subway Surface lines have weekend headways of 30 minutes now, with the exception of the 34 which is supposed to have 15 minute headways

7 to Main St wrote:Are you gonna upload the photos?

How do I post photos on here??? I only know how to email photos, but don't know how to post them in forums.

Quote "As far as I know SEPTA does not have a documented photo permit process. If they do, they don't enforce it, since I have never been stopped or questioned by operators, inspectors, or police."

They Do have a permit policy but the never I MEAN NEVER enforce it.
but i've never been stopped any way or even been talked to, and if I septa police I just stop and wait for them to leave or leave my self, but on the other hand I never talk to the ticket people unless I'm buying a ticket.

The 11 schedule is 15-20 minute headways on Saturday, and 30 minute headways on Sunday.

You need to upload the photos to a different server Try pbase

The only time someone from SEPTA is going to bother you about photos is if you make yourself known to someone who's having a bad hair day. Most people don't care, but there are those in SEPTA who like to "flex their muscles". With all the other stuff going on in West Philly, I really can't see a cashier or a transit cop being concerned about a railfan. You were probablly more a pest to them than a threat. In the future, just take your pictures and move on, no one will bother you.

Are you going to post the photos sometime this year? >_>

Lucius Kwok wrote:The 11 schedule is 15-20 minute headways on Saturday, and 30 minute headways on Sunday.

You need to upload the photos to a different server Try pbase

mannynews wrote:All of the Subway Surface lines have weekend headways of 30 minutes now, with the exception of the 34 which is supposed to have 15 minute headways

Considering I ride the Subway-Surface lines several times daily (including Sunday), I'm curious as to where you got your information. The published schedules all give 20 minute headways on Sunday during the day (verify for yourself if you like), and I haven't experienced otherwise in my daily travels.

Also, I think a large part of the reaction by employees/police is based on your behavior and the particular people on duty. I took a bunch of photos at 56th Street last Friday afternoon in plain view of three transit police, two station cleaners, and the booth clerk, and aside from keeping a watchful eye on me none of them said a word. Perhaps if you don't make yourself conspicuous (and by that I agree with the previous poster about questioning the necessity and purpose of telling the clerk what you think of the new station) and act like a hare-brained foamer you'll have less trouble? Just a thought.

You're right about the schedule. I was looking at the early morning times, which is 30 minutes, but the midday to evening schedule is 20 minutes.

Lucius Kwok wrote:You're right about the schedule. I was looking at the early morning times, which is 30 minutes, but the midday to evening schedule is 20 minutes.

Yup. The only major scheduling change I've noted in the last year on my line (34) is that at the end of last summer they went from 10 minute and 15 minute headways on Saturdays and Sundays, respectively, to 15 and 20. They also went from 4 to 5 minute rush-hour headways, but the 4-minute headways returned with the February schedule change.

Otto Vondrak wrote:As far as I know SEPTA does not have a documented photo permit process. If they do, they don't enforce it, since I have never been stopped or questioned by operators, inspectors, or police.

Seriously.

-otto-

Ironically enough, recently, when I went to Customer Service and asked about a permit process, they had no clue what I was talking about. Which did not surprise me. I then identified myself as an employee, and the reaction changed to "oh, well you work here, just show them your ID if you get stopped!"

Doesn't work that way all the time.

I know police have been chasing away fans from Frankford and 69th Street Terminal over the last few years. Back in 1997, a SEPTA officer told me I wasn't permitted to film trains at Margaret-Orthodox (but he let me finish what I was doing). It's all more or less totally ramdom on whether one is permitted to take photos or film at a location or not; just depends on the moods of the police or employees at that spot.

And if I do get stopped, I'll just leave. There will be other days.