30th Street Lower Level to PHL Airport

Can this be done by an in service, electric, passenger train?
Is/Are the switch(es) still in place.

I remember hearing that they may have been taken out....

Thanks!

That's Amtrak's PHIL interlocking, and it's a full-access one. The only issue is that they can't get to University City if they go to 30th street lower level.

It still exists.

At one time (briefly) Atlantic City trains ran through to PHL Airport.

Access would actually be via the “escape track” not PHIL. Septa from University City is on the “far side” of Amtrak vis a vis the Airport and ramps up and crosses the NEC via a flyover. However the aforementioned “escape track” connects the airport line to the opposite side of the NEC, which would allow acess to lower level 30th via PHIL. The Amtrak AC service used this connector.

I think any kind of frequent service to the airport would be ruled out by the need for trains destined to the airport to cross in front of northbound Amtrak NEC trains on the level*, a situation made worse (from an NEC standpoint) by the fact that the curvature of the escape track would restrict airport trains to a very slow speed approaching PHIL from 30th St. It seems as though PHIL was deliberately designed to make a straightaway move from the lower level to the airport line impossible; the crossovers for a southbound move from Tracks 2 and 3 to 4 (which has a crossover leading to the airport line) reach track 4 south of that crossover and parallel to it.

* Of course a southbound airport train could run Track 2 from 30th St., opposing traffic permitting, but if there was no northbound train approaching it could run Track 3 anyway.

The impractical nature of these movements is seen when the recent summer track work sessions have led to bustitution of the Airport Line instead of running it to 30th Street lower level like the Wilmington-Newark Line.

Is there some advantage to airport trains using the lower level instead of the upper level? Or were you, atlc4612, thinking of being able to use the lower level when construction or maintenance blocks the upper level?

Thanks to all who responded! I am doing research on possible improvements for NJT Atlantic City trains. Various writers go on about extending the AC Line to PHL or University City. Thanks to your responses it can be concluded that (at current state) running ACRL trains to PHL via 30th St lower is possible but not practical and running ACRL trains to University City from 30th St lower is not possible. Both destinations could be reached by 30th St Upper but that would require a reverse move, also impractical. Of course anything can be done with lots of money and time. My focus is what can be done practically in the current state and not fantasy scenarios.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:57 pm At one time (briefly) Atlantic City trains ran through to PHL Airport.

R36 and Everyone: Amtrak Atlantic City trains ran through to PHL back in 1994 thanks to a partnership
with the now-defunct Midway Airlines offering connecting service. The AC trains terminated at the Terminal C/D
platform on the south track. This service ended after Midway Airlines cut flights due to financial problems and
the eventual bankruptcy of the airline...MACTRAXX

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:54 pm I think any kind of frequent service to the airport would be ruled out by the need for trains destined to the airport to cross in front of northbound Amtrak NEC trains on the level*, a situation made worse (from an NEC standpoint) by the fact that the curvature of the escape track would restrict airport trains to a very slow speed approaching PHIL from 30th St. It seems as though PHIL was deliberately designed to make a straightaway move from the lower level to the airport line impossible; the crossovers for a southbound move from Tracks 2 and 3 to 4 (which has a crossover leading to the airport line) reach track 4 south of that crossover and parallel to it.

* Of course a southbound airport train could run Track 2 from 30th St., opposing traffic permitting, but if there was no northbound train approaching it could run Track 3 anyway.

I'm confused by this. Based on some track diagrams I have plus what I can see in Google, wouldn't something out of 30th going to the airport be able to shift to an outside track for the airport flyover? And then anything going from the airport to 30th be able to just join the NEC at PHIL? Now sure, if you're trying to go Airport-escape track-upper level, then you have an at-grade crossover move. Maybe not too bad now with the SEPTA NEC line, but I'm sure frequent airport service would lead to congestion.

The only crossover for a southbound move from Track 3 to 4 trails into 4 south of where the crossover from 4 to 5 (which becomes the airport line) diverges from 4, thus cutting off access from the lower level to the airport line flyover. Unless it's been changed within the last year or so, the airport line flyover leads only to Tracks 4 and 5, which lead only to 30th St. Upper Level (by which time they have become 5 and 6, respectively).

Regarding "Phil" interlocking here is a copy of a track map that used to be hosted at Blockstation(dot)net which went off line about a year ago.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... xBQ0JlXzB3

If this really long URL doesn't work go to http://position-light.blogspot.com/2019 ... -down.html and follow the links.

As you can see you can not get to the SEPTA airport line flyover coming from 30th street lower level. The best you can do is use the "Escape Track" which is the 91 switch at Phil. The Amtrak end is a powered switch controlled by the CETC 4 dispatcher. The other end of the train is a hand thrown electric lock switch on the SEPTA side. The above mentioned Amtrak/Midway connection at Philadelphia International did indeed use this route with the conductor having to get off and wrestle with the switch. The only other way an Atlantic City train could access the airport line would be to go via the Grey Ferry branch. The only problem is this stretch of track connecting Zoo with the Media/Wilmington line has been out of service for at least 40 years. You an still see the tunnel leading to ZOO when riding a Media/Wilmington train if you know where to look. If this track was restored Atlantic City trains could use it and stop at University City but would bypass 30tth street all together. That would probably be too much money to spend to avoid having a conductor hand throw a switch.

That switch at the escape track is interlocked now, it was finished last summer.

Ah, I see that switch now. But if a serious effort were going to be made to do this, how much would it take to install another switch, either in PHIL, or before?

It would require a new crossover north of No. 34 from Track 3 to 4, and parallel to 32, permitting a southward move from Track 3. To cross a northbound over to 2 to get out of the way of a NEC southbound coming from the lower level on 3 would require another crossover between No. 34 and Signal 2S leading from 2 to 3. I don't even want to think about the cost of doing that; the only thing I'm sure of is that Amtrak wouldn't pay for it.

RRspatch, thanks very much for that link -- great find.