2015 Papal visit

jamesinclair wrote:

Launcher wrote: 3. The concern about people making $9 an hour is dignified, but this is a one time event, and working that weekend is optional. The term "Essential personnel" and "$9 an hour" do not overlap much. When security and food vendors worked long shifts for the inauguration and the olympics they did not make merely $9 an hour, did they? I expect there to be potential for a lot of savvy people to make a lot more than $9 from this event. I expect certain restaurants of the area to be closed because they can't afford to pay their employees enough to cross the 4 mile fence. Others will likely capitalize on increased sales, and perhaps pay their employees a bonus. Tipped employees, including those at hoteliers, should make out better, too.

I see youve never worked in the service industry. 2 million potential customers means mandatory overtime. You either show up, or youre fired. So yes, if you work at 7-11, you are considered essential personnel because saying "I cant make it" to your boss is not an option.

The 7-11 employees at center city don't live in Trenton, Glenside or Doylestown. They likely all take the subway/bus or walk. Secondly, I would not be surprised if over 60% of the area's convenience stores close, and some other type of food cart or tent system is established to accommodate the crowds. These are very profitable, and the people working them often travel from town to town to capitalize on big crowds. They plan these things for months and they live for them. These aren't the kind of people that are going to let a closed road prevent them from getting to work. There are contingency plans. I have worked in the service industry, including at the Phillies parade. We were offered sleepovers, comp days, and tip-eligible employees made a killing. But we were not forced to work.

They have limited resources.

During the world series, pissed off riders in stations that were being passed by because of full trains, started to block the tracks. It is fortunate no one got splatted.

The stations chosen here often have requirements other than what is simply convenient for the riders. There are a lot of Security and logistical concerns. Many of the decisions here were made for SEPTA and not by SEPTA; and they have to make the best of it.

They do not have enough trains to take all the people who want to ride them. They cannot spend money to bring in trains from elsewhere. They are spending a ton of money as it is. Some people are going to be upset.

Not everyone gets to be an astronaut either. Life can give you a bad weekend or two. This will be one of them. I've walked from 69th street to center city before, so will a lot of people. It won't be a lot of fun, but it will only be a day or two.

Maybe more people will learn about bicycles.

I keep hearing that the secret service is behind all of the restrictions on travel. I want details on why they would limit the stations on the Subway and El. Unless they are planning on doing security screening of passengers at the stations I see no reason to limit stations. NYC, both Times Square and the financial district are terrorist targets every day. All of the subway stations are open. Yes the police have machine guns, but the system is allowed to work. We cannot shut down the city. We live here. We should have access to our limited subway system. Buses get stuck in traffic and detours. The subway and El is the best way to move the greatest number of people.

The Subway one can move thousands of people at a time. They can use BOTH loading levels at Pattison Ave. run express trains, like the Eagles Express all day. Run A/B trains all day on the EL. So what if the trains are crush load. I'd rather be crammed onto a subway car than not have the option at all.

Now there's rumors of shutting down the Ben Franklin Bridge to allow people to walk? What's wrong with using Patco?

I understand the capacity issues on the regional rail. But let's face it, it's not likely that huge amounts of out of towners are going to K&A or 56th st to catch the El. But local residents who rely on septa still need those stations. I am disgusted by the lack of explanation.

I'm pretty sure the station restrictions probably screwed some people who wanted to see the pope from not being able to board at the station near them

There are going to be up to 2 million people on the Ben Franklin Parkway genius.

That's like the entire population of Greenland squeezed into an area 10 blocks long, and one block wide.

Now if you were a Christian-hating terrorist, wouldn't this be a great venue to open fire on the crowd with a assault gun, or have suicide bombers?

Now if you ran the Secret Service and have to answer to the media, and Congressional hearings if there is an attack on WMOF.....wouldn't you want controlled points of entry/exit into and out of the city to have some type of control on the population flow? Gives you a fighting chance to catch a Jihadi wacko coming into the city, or putting the city in lock-down if there is an attack.

I hate to say it, but this is a perfect venue for an extremist. Like shooting 2 million innocent fish in a barrel.

Why don't you write to the Secret Service, Bettertransit? Demand an explaination why you can't ride the subway for 48 hours.

Better yet. Write Joe Casey and give him your brilliant operating plan for the pope visit.

Let me know how you make out.

Sounds like government work to me....

https://www.facebook.com/Lovesepta?fref=nf

NorthPennLimited wrote:There are going to be up to 2 million people on the Ben Franklin Parkway genius.

That's like the entire population of Greenland squeezed into an area 10 blocks long, and one block wide.

Now if you were a Christian-hating terrorist, wouldn't this be a great venue to open fire on the crowd with a assault gun, or have suicide bombers?

Now if you ran the Secret Service and have to answer to the media, and Congressional hearings if there is an attack on WMOF.....wouldn't you want controlled points of entry/exit into and out of the city to have some type of control on the population flow? Gives you a fighting chance to catch a Jihadi wacko coming into the city, or putting the city in lock-down if there is an attack.

I hate to say it, but this is a perfect venue for an extremist. Like shooting 2 million innocent fish in a barrel.

Why don't you write to the Secret Service, Bettertransit? Demand an explaination why you can't ride the subway for 48 hours.

Better yet. Write Joe Casey and give him your brilliant operating plan for the pope visit.

Let me know how you make out.

You really need to tone it down.

And wouldnt a Christian hating terrorist have an easier time finding Catholics, uh.... at their front door?

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I havent been to the Vatican in over a decade, but from what I remember they are actually rational about it.

And I really hope you understand the irony of the location.

Ben Franklin Parkway. Can you think of an appropriate quote famously attributed to Mt Franklin?

Shutting down an entire city and locking out the people who rely on transit because of "security" is neither rational nor prudent.

MACTRAXX wrote:Launcher and Everyone:

I believe why SEPTA is not serving Trenton is due to the distinct possibility that NJT will operate some trains
through from NEC points Trenton and north direct to 30th Street
MACTRAXX

That is a logical thought, but is there any official statement that NJT might run NY - Philly trains on these two days?
NJT crews operate deadhead equipment moves between the MMC and Philadelphia, so they are qualified on the physical characteristics; but do the laws that govern NJT permit live train service between Trenton and Philly?
If the answer to the above is yes, will SEPTA train crews put in time cards for live trains run by NJT crews?
Will riders use ordinary NJT Philadelphia tickets, and what will the NJT crews do with the SEPTA portions if they do?
And, most important of all, will my NJT pass be good to Philly? It hasn't been since 1983.

philipmartin wrote:

MACTRAXX wrote:Launcher and Everyone:

I believe why SEPTA is not serving Trenton is due to the distinct possibility that NJT will operate some trains
through from NEC points Trenton and north direct to 30th Street
MACTRAXX

That is a logical thought, but is there any official statement that NJT might run NY - Philly trains on these two days?
NJT crews operate deadhead equipment moves between the MMC and Philadelphia, so they are qualified on the physical characteristics; but do the laws that govern NJT permit live train service between Trenton and Philly?
If the answer to the above is yes, will SEPTA train crews put in time cards for live trains run by NJT crews?
Will riders use ordinary NJT Philadelphia tickets, and what will the NJT crews do with the SEPTA portions if they do?
Will my NJT Pass be valid on board these special trains?

PM: The Papal Visit is a extraordinary event forcing extraordinary service changes...With the normal NJT-SEPTA
RRD Trenton transfer not available on the two day Papal Visit weekend it only makes sense for NJT to operate
through train service to Philadelphia 30th Street from Trenton and north...NJT crews should cover this added
service since SEPTA will have nothing at all whatsoever again to do with any NJT special Papal Visit trains...

NJT will more then likely offer special tickets and fares for any through Papal Visit train service - I am thinking $40
round trip from NYP and $35 from NWK for starters here. Regular tickets will not be sold or honored...

If NJT chooses regular tickets - along with the SEPTA CCP NJT-sold portion - even though this option may cost more - could be honored for passage...This is something that NJT will have to decide...

Your NJT Pass should be honored at all times on a NJT train - especially with all of the seniority that you have...
Unless there is a directive prohibiting employees from riding these added trains...

MACTRAXX

Quite few years ago, I believe shortly after the commuter tunnel opened, NJT ran through trains from NYP to The Station Then Known As Market East for the Flower Show; they certainly worked out whatever issues there were, and since that would constitute a precedent, it ought to be easy to do the same thing now, if they want to.

As background: The Philadelphia Inquirer ran an editorial yesterday--headed "Fortress Francis"--in which it quotes an anonymous SEPTA official as saying that they are being "heavily advised" by the Secret Service, which I take to mean they pretty much have to salute smartly and do as they're told, and it's all still subject to change. The editorial also comments that the Secret Service tends to "err on the side of lockdown" and that recent experience has shown them to be "far from infallible."

I'm glad to hear that my pass will be good to Philly again, if only for a couple of days, if Transit does run the through service. "Your NJT Pass should be honored at all times on a NJT train...unless there is a directive prohibiting employees from riding these added trains..." I doubt that Transit would issue such a directive. The only employees who can't ride Transit free these days are the managers, the non-agreement folk. It sound ridiculous.

"NJT ran through trains from NYP to The Station Then Known As Market East for the Flower Show." That certainly is a precedent, although I don't know if they have done it since. There have been a lot of flower shows since then. Flower Power.

No, they haven't done it lately, and I'm not sure why. I think the first one was actually a charter, perhaps by a horticultural society in New York, and they just never did it again.

NJT and MNR coordinate for football trains (or at least have in the past). Whatever cross agency barriers can be overcome. The bigger question is who is qualified for this run, and who will be available during this period? And what will Homeland Security and Secret Service think of this arrangement?

In all honesty, it is going to be a cluster-you know what. If you don't absolutely need to travel that weekend, don't.

alewifebp wrote: In all honesty, it is going to be a cluster-you know what. If you don't absolutely need to travel that weekend, don't.

i'll be traveling. that is, to my hunting cabin in tioga county on thursday night to at least monday.