2 Hiring Sessions for Norfolk Southern

I have 2 hiring session scheduled for next week here in the Chicago area, Chicago and Kankakee. I can’t remember if I took their assessment test online already or will I be given one at the hiring session? Has anyone attended their hiring session before? This is for conductor by the way.

You will take a test while there. You will sit through 1-2 hours of orientation to the company and job first, then test. If you pass the test and/or visual inspection then you will get an interview. Plan to be there all day, though you may be out in two hours if it isn't your thing. There is something like a 15 page thread on the NS hiring session here in this forum. Give it a search, you'll find it. Read it all the way through and you'll probably get all of your questions answered.

Seems like a monumental waste of time to test after the "scary speech" orientation. Online assessments seem to work for everyone else.

jrock1956 wrote:Seems like a monumental waste of time to test after the "scary speech" orientation. Online assessments seem to work for everyone else.

The "scary speech" is to weed out those that won't fit in. You might see half the room disappear after those speeches. You might be one of them never know. It's not a game, they tell it like it is. A lot of sacrifices to make a decent living. The railroads don't hire part-time workers with those that want off on a whim, they don't care if you have a family ect....they want someone who is dedicated. Those that stick it out will provide a decent life for themselves and the family. It's like the military when they call you go. They want people who can follow orders abide by the rules. Everything a person thinks they know about working needs to be tossed out.

COEN77 wrote:

jrock1956 wrote:Seems like a monumental waste of time to test after the "scary speech" orientation. Online assessments seem to work for everyone else.

The "scary speech" is to weed out those that won't fit in. You might see half the room disappear after those speeches. You might be one of them never know. It's not a game, they tell it like it is. A lot of sacrifices to make a decent living. The railroads don't hire part-time workers with those that want off on a whim, they don't care if you have a family ect....they want someone who is dedicated. Those that stick it out will provide a decent life for themselves and the family. It's like the military when they call you go. They want people who can follow orders abide by the rules. Everything a person thinks they know about working needs to be tossed out.

Coen77,

I well remember my hiring session back in '78! Not much has changed apparently! The room was packed! It discouraged me immediately and I thot, "There's so many people here, I haven't a prayer!" But they truly told it like it is! They didn't mince words. When 8 AM arrived, the door was shut and locked! Stragglers were told politely thru the door as they tried to get in, "You are late, thank you much for coming, G'day"! They MEANT 8 AM sharp, not 8 naught one, etc! They went thru a list of health issues, height, weight, back problems, vision, color blindness, alcohol (Rule G), and drugs. They told us that IF you have any issue as outlined, please, you are free to leave. Do NOT try to 'fake" your way thru: the thorough and TOUGH physical will find it out. And this was before disabilities laws came in! So they were VERY selective!!!! I kid you NOT! "If you wear glasses, you may leave! You must have 20/20 vision! Period! Anything less is unacceptable!. IOW, you had to be a perfect specimen, or you were out of LUCK ISA the railroad was concerned!

One by one the room began to empty out--1 or 2 here, 3-4 there, 6, then 5--and so on until there were about half the people there (I think there were 80 or so (?) at first. When they mentioned drugs or alcohol, NOBODY got up and left! The next thing was "a trick knee" I bet HALF the people got up and filed out!!! HA! HA! It was hilarious! Ain't no way 20 people had a "trick" knee! LMAO!!!!!!!! I get a chuckle everytime I think of that part of the session!

Well, anyway, I was still discouraged when there will still about 20 or so left. They revealed they had 5 jobs to fill. Finally, it was all but over. One by one they called out 4 names. And my heart was heavy for I "knew" I had wasted an entire day. And then...............they called the LAST name! It was ME!!!!!!!!! I was HIRED on Southern Railway!!!!!!!! First try, first time out, hired!!!!!! About a month later, after the physical and interview with my new boss, I reported to the Roadway Shops, Southern Railway System---as a lowly laborer! A greasy, grimy, low seniority laborer following an electric crane around the track material yard loading stock rail and switch points. It led to other things, tho: clerk, time at McDonough, line of road Extra Board, station agent, porter/baggage handler, train order clerk, and others. Then all too quickly it was over. Where did those years go? With all the difficulties, with all the disappointments, all the problems, would I change that career? NO! I was durn proud of it and glad that my obituary will read, "He was retired from Southern Railway/Norfolk Southern Railway" following a long line of proud railroaders. You and I know what its like! I hope those who seek it, those who can "hack it", will cherish those memories like I do!

GF

When I started thinking about the railroad, I found out about a NS hiring session in Ohio. One of my friends was also interested. We took a road trip. I think that it started at about 0600 hrs., and was at an American Legion hall. It was the same drill, lock the door at 0601, scary speech, math, reading, and honesty tests. It all boiled down to 5 jobs. Neither of us got hired that day.

After the test, I applied with Amtrak, and BNSF also. BN called first, so I moved out and took the job. About a week after I hired out, both Amtrak and NS called with job offers, which I of course declined. My point is that they must keep some of the top finalists on file for future offers. I don't know if this has changed, as that was 17 years ago.

Gadfly

You're absolutely correct on the vision policy on the Southern/NS. One of my co-workers on the C&O/CSX tried to get on the Southern/NS which his father & older brother were locomotive engineers and Kenny would of been in the 4th generation along with his brother. He wore glasses and was disqualified. Luckily C&O was more lax on the eye exam about the only thing that would disqualify is color blindness and he got hired on.

I remember a guy who transferred down from Ohio on the C&O in the early '80s. This dude had glasses that were as thick as the bottom of an old Coca-Cola bottle. Always made me nervious working with him. He'ld stand at the locomotive console talking to me and his eyes looked 3 times the normal size. He didn't stay long got recalled back up north. LOL! I'm not making fun of him that wouldn't be nice, just shows the differences between each railroad. I don't think he would of been hired today under CSX.

COEN77 wrote:Gadfly

You're absolutely correct on the vision policy on the Southern/NS. One of my co-workers on the C&O/CSX tried to get on the Southern/NS which his father & older brother were locomotive engineers and Kenny would of been in the 4th generation along with his brother. He wore glasses and was disqualified. Luckily C&O was more lax on the eye exam about the only thing that would disqualify is color blindness and he got hired on.

I remember a guy who transferred down from Ohio on the C&O in the early '80s. This dude had glasses that were as thick as the bottom of an old Coca-Cola bottle. Always made me nervious working with him. He'ld stand at the locomotive console talking to me and his eyes looked 3 times the normal size. He didn't stay long got recalled back up north. LOL! I'm not making fun of him that wouldn't be nice, just shows the differences between each railroad. I don't think he would of been hired today under CSX.

Yessir! Southern was extremely "picky". Some have said that their physical standards were worse than the Army! That is, back in the "day". I think the "Disabilities Acts" put a stop to some of it, but then if you weren't a "perfect" specimen, you didn't get hired. Period. Now, I think they have to hire you if your vision is correctable to 20/20 with glasses. In those days, I was pretty healthy, passing all points of the physical including vision of 20/15 without specs. (reading the next line down from 20/20). Color vision was right on the mark & they gave us some colors meant to try to "fool" you, but it didn't fool me.

When I left that day with my preliminary hire slip, BOY! Was I elated! The day I went to see my new boss, I was ecstatic! And couldn't WAIT to tell my old boss because the job I had then was low pay, long hours, and few bennies! I was working at a well-known exterminating company (When termites are swarmin', be sure to take warnin', & call the ***** man!) They literally worked me 12 hours, 6 days a week and sometimes at night--and got mad if I was one minute late at 8 AM the next day after working until 2 AM at some restaurant. When I got back from getting hired at SR that Friday, the District Mgr was there. This boss called me into the office sternly along with this district guy wanting to know where I had the wherewithal to "sneak off" and leave my job wanting. Now I never was routinely late for work, never took time off (they *said* we had a weeks vacation but who could TAKE it what with the work load they piled on me?), and kept my route up to date each and every month. They didn't know I was FED UP with their old "job" and the lack of raises, the broken promises, the HUGE work load. IOW, I was been taken advantage in several ways.

This little boss man (who was an a**hole, btw) really began to chew on me, threatening to fire me (HEE! HEEE! Snicker!). In the middle of his diatribe, he noticed me sliding the key for my little company truck off my ring, and he paused.

I asked him, "Are you DONE?"

He said, "Now don't you backtalk me, boy"--I'll fire you right NOW!"

At that point, I palmed the key and slammed it down on the desk, making him jump: he didn't expect the reaction!

I pointed my finger in his face across the desk, and I REALLY told him what I thought of his "job"!

I said, "AS OF THIS MOMENT, YOU AIN'T 'FIRIN' NOBODY CUZ *I QUIT!!!!!!!!!!! AND DON'T YOU EVER CALL ME NAMES AGAIN OR I'LL COME ACROSS THAT DESK AND SHOW YOU JUST HOW MUCH OF A "BOY" I AM!!!!!!"

At that same moment I was on my feet with anger and pent up resentment, and I continued to unload about their false promises and lack of raises while I had NEVER taken time off, had no raises, fulfilled everything they asked of me, and how I was FED UP and GONE!!!!!!!

Their attitude changed as they realized that I was carrying a route of $9,000 per month (a tidy sum in those days) and they were going to LOSE a bunch of it IF they lost the route guy that was familiar with the route===AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE A LOT OF IT WAS!!!!!!!!! I had run the route and added to it for 3 years, and now they would have to explain why the loss to upper mgt!

They tried to give me---get this---a 15 cent raise, and I LAUGHED at them. You see, I was going to a job where I was going to DOUBLE my pay at the railroad the day I stepped onto the property and THAT was at the apprentice rate!!!! PHOOEY on their "raise"!!!

So I went railroadin' and never regretted it. Well...........some of it was hard, but all in all...........!

Gadfly

COEN77 wrote:

jrock1956 wrote:Seems like a monumental waste of time to test after the "scary speech" orientation. Online assessments seem to work for everyone else.

The "scary speech" is to weed out those that won't fit in. You might see half the room disappear after those speeches. You might be one of them never know. It's not a game, they tell it like it is. A lot of sacrifices to make a decent living. The railroads don't hire part-time workers with those that want off on a whim, they don't care if you have a family ect....they want someone who is dedicated. Those that stick it out will provide a decent life for themselves and the family. It's like the military when they call you go. They want people who can follow orders abide by the rules. Everything a person thinks they know about working needs to be tossed out.

I wasn't talking about the "scary speech" part as being a waste of time. I've been there done that twice. But in this day and age of computers the test should be given online first. Norfolk's hiring procedures seem to be about 5 years behind the curve.

why give a test to people then have to weed them out with a speech about the railroad life? It makes more sense to give the speech then have half the people leave then give test. Less testing that has to be done.

NJ Transit did that back in 2006 when i went for loco engineer testing. Gave a long speech about the life, the equipment, expectations etc, was about 2hours long. Then a 30 minute break. I came back in the room and when the break was over, 2/3's of the room didn't come back. Less testing for transit to have to grade.

That's what Gadfly & myself was discussing the differences between railroads. To me it makes more sense to test after the introductory speech then before an offer. NS training seems to be better than some others shorter classroom longer OJT which is where it counts.

COEN77 wrote:That's what Gadfly & myself was discussing the differences between railroads. To me it makes more sense to test after the introductory speech then before an offer. NS training seems to be better than some others shorter classroom longer OJT which is where it counts.

Once hired, I eventually went to McDonough Training Center where I learned waybilling, demurrage, and an encapsulated synopsis of clerking as such was done in that time period. You didn't "learn" all there was to know. After about 6 weeks of a self-study program led there at what I called "railroad boot camp", I was assigned to Charlotte, NC yard where I continued OJT. I would sit in with the various clerk positions and shifts (called on Southern, "cubbing") for several more weeks. This also includes Rules Classes and the exam. One never fully "learns" a job without time spent actually doing it, and they didn't necessarily fully explain, or let me "cub" every single job there was. When I marked up, I was thrown to the lions, so to speak. This meant I was called for some positions I never had "cubbed", and had to fend for myself. One such job was the Mobile Agent's job, Kings Mtn, NC. This job was like a station agents job, except one worked out of a small car or station wagon. I didn't "know" **** from shinola, as the saying goes! EEEEK! The only saving grace was, I had actually coincidentally called on many of the SAME customers I had with the exterminating company--especially the cotton mills--, so I knew where all the customers were!

Funny thing happened on that job. On Monday morning when I was called to protect that Mobile agent's job, I went to the Kings Mountain Police Department to pick up the agent's car (a Dodge Aspen) as instructed. When I got there, there was NO car! ????????????????????? Then I went down to a nearby Exxon because "Dan", the agent sometimes left the car there for service. No car. What th'???????????????????? I phoned the Gastonia Station agent about 8 miles up the road.

"Huh"?, he said, "It's supposed to be there."

"Well, it AIN'T, and I've looked everywhere for it."

After a few minutes of puzzled discussion, "Bill", the agent, said, "Just a minute."

I heard Bill call Dan on the radio: "Southern Agent, Gastonia, to Mobile Agent NC 11, over!"

Dan answered immediately!

Dan had FORGOTTEN that he was supposed to be marked off on vacation!!!!!!! Dan came and picked me up and I "cubbed" the job until noon! That was all the OJT I GOT on that job! LOL!

I muddled thru the week, recording set-offs, outgoing cars, did inspections, talked to the switchers, rode with them down to pick up industry cuts, pick up waybills from customers and do demurrage. Then you had to RACE 12 miles to Belmont, NC, gulping down lunch, type these bills into the computer, then get BACK to KM before some of the shipping departments closed for the day @ 3 PM! Plus they were widening Interstate 85 at the time, and I often had to sit in creeping traffic. I had too many deadlines and a couple of aggravating customers that kept me hopping. One was a cement plant. This fella would ride around hunting me down, and worry the H- out of me about his cement cars! Often they had not even left the outgoing plant in South Carolina!! But he wanted 'em RIGHT NOW---YESTERDAY. I learned to "hide" from him, and one favorite place was behind the old high school which was off the beaten path and "off my beat".
If I didn't hide from him, I'd NEVER get my office work done!

I thought I was doing a terrible job and felt very insecure and as if I had not a clue to what I was doing. But the Trainmaster, who *could* be a real bear at times--especially to the train crews--looked over my work and said, "They told me you didn't get to 'cub' this job a-tall, but you seem to be doing a fine job! It isn't right for 'em to throw people onto jobs they've never worked before"!

So I didn't get run off. And never did while on Line-of Road, and THAT was the roughest place to work in those days....................

GF

I was lucky hiring out in 1977 as a brakeman learning everything OJT. The only things we had when I hired out on the C&O was a 1 Day safety orientation & then 2 days with a yard crew switching. Then I got marked up. Then in 1980 transferring into engine service you were just marked up by seniority as a locomotive firemen or hostling engines at the roundhouse. The engineer training came later in Cumberland, Md for 6 weeks classroom then OJT for 4 1/2-6 months. Even after getting promoted to locomotive engineer most of us worked as locomotive firemen till an opening which meant retirements. I fired for almost 4 years with the same engineer. It was great all the fun of running a train but no real responsibility. If I could of I'd of stayed a locomotive firemen for my entire carreer, it was the best job on the railroad. LOL!

COEN77 wrote:I was lucky hiring out in 1977 as a brakeman learning everything OJT. The only things we had when I hired out on the C&O was a 1 Day safety orientation & then 2 days with a yard crew switching. Then I got marked up. Then in 1980 transferring into engine service you were just marked up by seniority as a locomotive firemen or hostling engines at the roundhouse. The engineer training came later in Cumberland, Md for 6 weeks classroom then OJT for 4 1/2-6 months. Even after getting promoted to locomotive engineer most of us worked as locomotive firemen till an opening which meant retirements. I fired for almost 4 years with the same engineer. It was great all the fun of running a train but no real responsibility. If I could of I'd of stayed a locomotive firemen for my entire carreer, it was the best job on the railroad. LOL!

The closest I came to train and engine service was the simulator. They would allow any employee to operate it because they figured that if you were able to see what a train crew had to deal with,it would cause clerks to work better with them. The "old" simulator was an analog "graph" model that had the "side" control stand, brakes, and a display graph that showed the slack forces. The Road Foreman could dial in any trackage on the division for a 'test' of engineer skills. For the trainmen, it was a test of skill; for the rest of us--clerks, signalmen, pump knockers, etc, it was more like a game where you did your best to keep the graph from going TOO high., At some point, if you let that happen, you'd have a "break-in-two" and the air would come down, the engine sound would throttle down, and you'd "stop". The challenge with that old graph system was (as you'd know) was---some of the train was on uphill, some on the flat, other cars were going downhill. Your graph was going CRAZY with lines going way UP (showing pulling), others were "neutral" (on level ground), other lines on the graph were below the mean center indicating a "bunched" train. So, IF I recall correctly, one had to find something of a happy medium so that you didn't pull TOO hard or too quickly, nor allow the train to "bunch" too much. Admittedly, I have forgotten what all the Road Foreman showed me, and, of course, I didn't really KNOW what I was doing anyway. In those days, Southern used to use "radio trains" with engines spaced back in the train. This was supposed to "even out" the slack forces because there was power applied well back in the train that "got to" the cars quicker, and lessened coupler forces. But I thought it was interesting, and something nice to know. I "passed" btw, tho I don't really know what I was about, OR the Road Foreman was just being nice! The "route" he chose that day? Saluda Mountain Grade!

The newer simulator was MUCH nicer, and I got to run it at Greenville, SC at a Division Safety meeting. I was on the Shop Safety Committee, and was selected to go that year. The new sim was in one of those nice GMC motor homes, but was converted to a mini-auditorium. It had a huge theater-style movie screen, control stands, and up-to-date graphics and sounds. It looked like you were actually looking out the windscreen at the track ahead, and the "division" I was on was the "Rat Hole" Division. The scenery was the same you would see IF you were operating on that line. So when it was my turn, I sat down and began to "run". I called out a signal or two (BOARD CLEAR! And the Trainmaster who was running the sim took up the game, calling them back to me---"CLEAR BOARD!")
I "chugged" along for awhile when, as I was blowing a crossing signal (that was LOUD inside the motor home) and the gates were coming down, a "car" approached from the right, "running" to beat the gates down. I, not knowing exactly what to do, and as the TM watched, I reduced power and began blowing the "DANGER" signal----TANT-TANT-TANT-TANT-TANT-TANT! I was caught up in the game, and, without thinking where I was, I blurted out, "YOU STUPID SONUVA-----" OOOPS!!!!!!!!! HAHA! It was almost like REAL! It tickled the TM (nice to see one have fun for a change!), and he said, "Have you EVER done this before?" I told him I only had run the "old" system when it came to Charlotte, and he said, "Well, if you ever want to go running let me know. YIKES! Nah! By that time in my career, I was pretty well used to the 7 to 3:30 life of the shops, and I wasn't about to trade it unless I had to!

GF

jrock1956 wrote:Seems like a monumental waste of time to test after the "scary speech" orientation. Online assessments seem to work for everyone else.

I also think online assessments are the better way to go. It wastes fewer peoples time by weeding them out before they make the trip to a session to get canned. You know? But hey, thats how NS plays it. Old school I guess you could say. Just do it and move on if you want the job. I did it and thousands of others have done the same. Our opinions matter not, lol. Good luck.