Why no expresses past Summit?

Anyone know why NJT doesn't run any expresses that pass stations past Summit (except Mt Tabor?) Seems like there are enough passengers to justify expresses from Morristown and even Denville. And, of course, the Lackawanna ran expresses that didn't run local west of Summit.

Bad attempt at maximizing revenue, sounds like to me. Must figure that super-expresses that run directly between NY Penn and Summit are enough station-skipping, and best not skip the big-money outlying station stops.

Irish Chieftain wrote:Bad attempt at maximizing revenue, sounds like to me. Must figure that super-expresses that run directly between NY Penn and Summit are enough station-skipping, and best not skip the big-money outlying station stops.

Yeah. More Summit expresses might be in order. They've got a decent amount now but could use some more methinks.

Irish, that reasoning seems wrong. It's not like the people at the intermediate stops don't have frequent service. And, it's not like they will bolt for Lakeland Bus if they see a train passing their station--as long as they get good service.
Looking at other commuter lines, it seems if you have enough business to run trains more frequently than every 25 minutes or so, it pays to run each train to a cluster of stations. That way, everyone will get some express trains, and no one will have to wait for long. I used to commute on the MN Harlem line, and it was like that, with each rush-hour train stopping at a few stations. The other MN electric lines are similar. The SP service out of San Francisco ran that way, "back in the day." And, of course, NJT "super expresses" take more time than DL&W every-stop locals did. When I was looking for a house a few years ago, I passed up the M&E because its trains were just too slow. In fact, if NJT ran more real expresses, they would reclaim some traffic from Rt 80. If they don't run faster trains, Martz will still get most of the commuter business even if the Cutoff is re-opened. I'm kind of puzzled that NJT management has this blind spot about speed. What would get them to wake up and smell the coffee?

Irish, that reasoning seems wrong

That's because it's not my own, of course...

I'm kind of puzzled that NJT management has this blind spot about speed

Foisted upon them by curtailing of subsidy, thus making them rever to plan B—attempting to maximize farebox revenue. Problem is, speed sells, not how many stations you can pick people up at.

If they don't run faster trains, Martz will still get most of the commuter business even if the Cutoff is re-opened

I think the Cutoff is safe in at least one respect—it can bypass I-80 traffic while the Martz bus cannot.

When NJT was using their thinking caps ( ex- back in the 1980's-early 90's under Wes Coates) they had stop skipping in the AM on the Morristown line. I remember one such train that left Dover by skipping Denville, Morristown, and Madison. There was also another train #6614 I believe that left Netcong and only made station stops at Denville, Morristown, Madison and Summit and then express to Maplewood or something. I don't have the timetable so I don't know the exact schedule of it. Seems like NJT will never revert back to stop-skip scheduling anymore.....

Steve

When I was looking for a house, I kept thinking about the expresses my father took in the fifties, which did Boonton-Hoboken in 40 minutes. Of course, that line no longer exists, but I couldn't get it out of my head. Instead I got a house near Suffern, where the expresses take 40 minutes to Hoboken. Of course, they are only there at the insistence of Metro North, who pays for them.

njt4172 wrote:When NJT was using their thinking caps ( ex- back in the 1980's-early 90's under Wes Coates) they had stop skipping in the AM on the Morristown line. I remember one such train that left Dover by skipping Denville, Morristown, and Madison. There was also another train #6614 I believe that left Netcong and only made station stops at Denville, Morristown, Madison and Summit and then express to Maplewood or something. I don't have the timetable so I don't know the exact schedule of it. Seems like NJT will never revert back to stop-skip scheduling anymore.....

Steve

Yes, that was 618.

The skip stops also had another benefit: better use of conductors and trainpersons. The eb skip stops would drop 1-2 trainmen in Summit, who would then work the next local east. No more pickups east of Summit, so why carry a full load of traincrew?

they have skip stop trains on teh NEC, NJCL, and RVL....Im not familar with the other lines though.

They usually seem to run more in the AM rush than PM. One Coast Line train starts in LB, expresses to Middletown, Hazlet, Matawan then i think Newark.....there aren't any of these trains in the PM, as all trains make all stops from Middletown west.

With regard to Midtown Direct during rush hour, tunnel capacity is a factor. since there are limited slots, each train needs to be run with a large number of cars. To fill these long trains you need to stop at a lot of stops.

For the Gladstone MidTowns, in the morning, the ttwo trains make all stops on the Gladstone Branch (except one of them doesn't stop at Gladstone) and then one will stop and Summit and express to NY and the other after New Providence will express to Newark and then NY. In the evening though, these two trains will stop at a few more stations (Maplewood, Millburn, South Orange etc. etc.). They are still expresses- but I wish they were as express in the evening as they are in the morning.

How about 4 tracks from Kearny Jct. to Roseville, 3 solid tracks to Summit, and 2 maybe 3 tracks to Morristown for a "semi-corridorial" M&E ?

If the population becomes more dense and work/play travel involves Newark and NYC, that would certainly be in the cards for two or three decades from now.

Big infrastructure items would be the Newark bridge. Summit Cut would not necessarily be as much of a problem, if the Gladstone branch junction was simply moved to the east end of where West Summit siding used to be.

Big infrastructure items would be the Newark bridge

Which has been slated for replacement for some time. With NJT, you never know when. On the positive side, the portion of the viaduct over Rt 21 was replaced recently and appears to be wide enough to hold 3 tracks.