While We're on the West Hempstead Branch

Bensalem wrote: Do you beileve the WH should be abandoned?

Absolutely not. The talk was simply a scare tactic used by the head of the MTA to stir up the local population to pinhole their state politicians to pony up money for the MTA budget. The MTA had financed too many things in the recent past with bonds and now the interest due on those is eating away into the budget. So either the MTA cuts back or Albany whips up more $$. Problem is, Albany has no more $$, and will not add taxes (such as the discontinued commuter tax) and so we're screwed.

But even though its smaller than its neighboring branches, the West Hemp. branch still sees considerable ridership during the commission hours. Several towns, notably Malverne are filling up with upper-upper middle class childless families who tolerate the incredibly high taxes/lousy school district, just so they can walk to their station. This goes for Westwood, Hempstead Gardens, and increasingly W. Hempstead.

The alternative is going south to Valley Stream, Lynbrook or Rockville Centre, and there isn't ANY parking left, and there is no place left to park nearby and they will never put up garages. Or you could go North to Hempstead, and for many that ain't an option. The county executive would like to incorporate the WHempstead and Oyster Bay branches into their light rail scheme, but unless they start winning the lottery on a daily basis, that ain't happening either.

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Bensalem - I used to commute from the Island to your home station after making the acquaintance of a disgruntled female Eagles/Flyers fan who lived not too far from Sesame Place. What a freakin' trip. Some day someone has to teach me the proper way of saying "Neshaminy Falls"...

No way should they abandon the WH. It's the only north-south link from south to central nassau.

And I still can't understand why they insist on proposing light rail for it. Just keep it as is, rebuild the Mineola-WH ROW, and maybe even the wye at Valley. Then they can run trains from OB to Far Rock like they used to. And at the same time, they can still operate the existing city-bound service.

And also, the compatability would allow for easy expansion of the intra-island rail system.

NIMBYkiller wrote:And I still can't understand why they insist on proposing light rail for it. Just keep it as is, rebuild the Mineola-WH ROW, and maybe even the wye at Valley. Then they can run trains from OB to Far Rock like they used to. And at the same time, they can still operate the existing city-bound service.

Well, the politicians just parrot 'Light Rail' because it's become a transit buzzword in the past few years, mentioned in all scenerios, even ones where it's ridicuously unsuitable (I still want to see what these clownheads are proposing for the LIRR Atlantic Branch/Lower Manhattan AirTrain - apparently the FRA doesn't exist in their little world). Of course, it's not just uninformed politicians, as if you wander around these and other message boards, you'll find a few other trolleyphiles chanting the mantra of 'Light Rail'.
As for restoring the wye... well, there is only a car wash in the way there now (and the entrance to the elevated LIRR maintenace lot), and I never liked that car wash anyway (I use USA Wash in W. Hemptead - Night Wash, Baby!), so it's OK by me. However, I'm sure the logistics of getting such a thing approved (let alone convincing the LIRR that they want it), would be a massive nightmare...

It'll probably be really bad during the rush hour. They'd probably have to build a flyover.

Definately in Mineola. Have 2 tracks branch off the OB, continuing southbound and heading underground. They would go under the main line and then come back up south of Old Country Rd.



I really do feel that LIRR needs to re-start some of its intra-island service. Intra-island commuting is already the dominant pattern, and it will only increase.

Nimby, what do you mean by FBA? What do you mean by the WYE at Valley?

I don't see it in his posts, but FBA is commonly used abbreviation for Flatbush Avenue terminal. A wye is a couple of tracks that run into each other in a vee shape used to turn an engine around, or used to go in either direction at a junction. It's called that because if you look at it from a bird's eye view, it looks like the letter "Y". There may have been a wye at Valley, but not since they rebuilt and elevated Valley in the early '30s. If there was a need for a train to go from the Far Rock to the West Hempstead branch, they would've changed ends or executed a reverse move in the station. Same thing for Mineola, there may have been a direct connection from the track coming up from Hempstead Crossing/Fairgrounds, it wasn't there when they rebuilt the tower after the 1922 incident when the tower was decapitated from lading shifted over the side of a gondola.

While being able to run OYB to Far Rock may nice for a few folks, it would be a hard thing to justify to everyone else, especially running through the seat of Nassau County (nobody minded the track when it was just the Fairgrounds, but now with all of the ambulance chasers parking their Jag-u-ars there in the courts and county HQ) and to everyone living north of West Hempstead. I'd just like to see East Side Access or the third Mainline track, and after what Pataki said the other day, it probably won't be in my lifetime or yours...

According to Bob Emery's map of Mineola, the connection of the wye to the Main Line tracks and cross tracks allowing continuation on to Oyster Bay were removed in 1928.

His 1945 map shows the east leg of the wye branching off behind the substation and interlocking tower but dead ending just short of the road and south of the tower.

His 1958 map shows the wye still there, but now the east leg has been cut back to just south of the sub station.

The official LIRR freight map of 1966 shows the wye completely removed.

Dave Keller

Valley Stream did have a wye, east leg of which branched off across Roosevelt Avenue, then connected to the main, east of Rockaway Avenue.

The grade elimination also eliminated the wye.

Dave Keller

From how you discribed the Y @ Valley is was pretty dam big, and wide.
Roosevelt Ave - East of Rockaway Ave. is totally developed its all buildings one would never know a Y exested there, and I also thout that there was a Y on the current El thats inplace now, but was since removed since there was no use for it..

Dave/Anyone do u have any old pics of Valley during the elevation and just after, that you can post.

I think there was a small narrow shot it Daves book w/ a H-10, but i was wondering if there was any more out there.

Note: there was also a clip in Zeils book that showed what is now parking and a hockey rink to be a dirt feild.

"what do you mean by FBA?"

Flatbush Avenue


"What do you mean by the WYE at Valley?"

According to my hagstrom, there is a wye at Valley. Now, obviously, that's not true, but I'm pretty sure that at one point, a wye did exist there. It would have allowed trains to operate from the WH branch to the Far Rock branch without making any reverse moves.


"Same thing for Mineola, there may have been a direct connection from the track coming up from Hempstead Crossing/Fairgrounds"

I'm pretty sure I've seen old maps and pictures showing a connection from the OB line to the Mineola-WH ROW. It was part of the route from OB to Valley Stream, and I'm pretty sure those trains also continued to Far Rock via the wye that I described above. Of course, these days, there is no way they could rebuild crossing the main line at grade, so they'd have to go under the main instead.


"especially running through the seat of Nassau County"
"and to everyone living north of West Hempstead."

There's really no problem. The ROW through the county seat is just an underused parking lot. Also, someone here said that the ROW from WH to CLP is totally clear too.

Nimby:

Read my previous postings regarding the wyes at both Mineola and Valley Stream:

There WAS a wye at Valley Stream, but it was eliminated along with the grade. My earlier posting gives the location.

The "newer" elevated track configuration DID NOT allow for a wye any longer.

Dave Keller

Nimby, your right about the wye at Mineola, as a kid I walked the WH and GC to Mineola tracks many a time. You could still see the tracks inbedded in the street at a couple of places due east of where the GC/Mineola tracks joined the main line....

Sorry Dave. I just skimmed the previous posts. I missed the part where you said that it was before grade.

When I went through Valley Stream though, it did seem like there was enough space to build the eastern part of the wye(the one that would allow Far Rock trains to go east to Babylon or onto the WH). I think there was just some small maintanance building there, or something like there.


" You could still see the tracks inbedded in the street at a couple of places due east of where the GC/Mineola tracks joined the main line...."

Which street(s)? Do you mean you could see them when you walked them, or that you could still see them today?

And there's also the small wall of ties that branches off at Mineola. I think Bob Andersen has a pic of it on his site(BTW, Bob, I've still gotta send you those photos of the seondary. Hopefully I can scan em in this week).

NIMBY, give me a break! That was the summer of 1964, I'm lucky if I can remember where my truck keys are, and what there for when I find them! I had just moved to the island from N.J., had no friends yet, so I spent the summer following train tracks on my bike. My favorite place was Mineola, I use to get coffee for the guy in the control tower, which led to him inviting me up, He would let me throw the switch levers ect...To bad those days are gone, but I guess kid's have "I" BOX and cable...I digest, anyway, I remember seeing the rails under the road poking through in a couple of places. I remember the last use of the WH branch, 1965 + or - a year, 3 flat cars with telephone poles at the LILCO plant at Franklin Ave, on the GC/Hemp boarder.....

Back in the late 60’s, I also explored the area, as I grew up in Mineola. Just south of Nassau tower about 200 to 300 yards on the tracks to Garden City were the remains of a switch. The piece of disused track went north a short distance and then curved to the north east where it was paved over for the road next to Nassau tower. I also was invited up into Nassau tower a couple of times, and had my turn on the Armstrong levers. At the time I couldn’t figure out why you had to move a huge lever to just to set a signal after the switch was lined up. Also, I thought strange was that it took about four lever throws to set the switch to line up a east bound train to Oyster Bay. Now I realize that that’s a more complicated move. After doing some reading, I now understand what “interlocking” means and the significance of what I experienced.