West Trenton in zone 5?

http://web.archive.org/web/200502050313 ... irport.pdf
On the map it shows West Trenton in zone 5 but trenton in zone 6. Was this true at one point? How come people going into delaware aren't charged the NJ fare?

The state of Delaware pays septa for the service, NJ does not subsidies any service operated by Septa hence the high fare and the independence pass not being valid into NJ also comes under this bracket (there is a charge to pay on top of the independence price if you travel into NJ).

It is not a septa plot to get more money out of corridor riders, it is the base fact that no money comes from NJ and there is still service into the state

That map does show West Trenton in 5 and Trenton in 6.

I don't know why that was true in 2004.

Delaware was answered above.

It could have something to do with the connection to NJ Transit at Trenton. I wonder if SEPTA could get NJ to pay them for service by threatening to cut it.

Well, since amtrak owns most of the trenton line, i suppose it makes sense.

jackintosh11 wrote:It could have something to do with the connection to NJ Transit at Trenton. I wonder if SEPTA could get NJ to pay them for service by threatening to cut it.

Eh, this kinda thing is exactly why people do not like SEPTA. It's run like a scared, selfish, confused, overpriced pizza parlor vs a good & affordable Italian restaurant. If they ever got proper funding none of this would be an issue. Also, if they cut trenton, it'd likely be cut back to cornwells heights, which would be a very bad move.

25Hz wrote: Eh, this kinda thing is exactly why people do not like SEPTA. It's run like a scared, selfish, confused, overpriced pizza parlor vs a good & affordable Italian restaurant. If they ever got proper funding none of this would be an issue. Also, if they cut trenton, it'd likely be cut back to cornwells heights, which would be a very bad move.

Sorry, but I have to jump in about the interesting commentary. "...scared, selfish, confused, overpriced pizza parlor..." I'd love for you to explain this comment. Overpriced? How? Where SHOULD they get their operating funds from? How about the capital funds to keep the system in good repair? Scared? Selfish? What is your philosophy on running SEPTA?

Did you seriously just call SEPTA overpriced? LOL. Get back to me when you're paying $15 for a one way ticket from Langhorne or Doylestown or wherever you come from into the city.

Edit: Toned it down a little bit. -AlexC

CNJGeep wrote:Did you seriously just call SEPTA overpriced? LOL. Get back to me when you're paying $15 for a one way ticket from Langhorne or Doylestown or wherever you come from into the city.

Edit: Toned it down a little bit. -AlexC

Well, i say overpriced because there has been fare increases coupled with service cuts.... you're paying more for less. Confused because you can't easily connect between anything unless you're going inbound AM and outbound PM, and even then it's tricky, and scared because they use doomsday tactics to get basic operating things. This is my opinion, no one has to agree with it.

So your answer is don't tell anyone that Septa needs more money, then they won't get any, and they can cut service to lines that fall apart because of the lack of money? Keep fares down and let the service and track deteriorate into levels like that seen in the later conrail days, if you look around you will see the money Septa gets does go back into the system, new welded track, new wires, rehabbing sub stations, new trains, new stations, new signage, and that's just on the RRD side.

As for connections you are beating a dead horse, you have tried it before and now you bring it up again, because YOU don't have a perfect 5 minute connection indicates the whole service is crap and overpriced, come on, taxes went up, cost of living went up but you still want 1983 prices, really.....

Now we have taken this totally off topic, let's try to go back to it.

The fact is people don't agree with the higher fare for NJ, however few realize why, they need to petition the state of NJ, not complain at Septa, what would you if you were running the company, just give a freebie to states who don't contribute, of course you wouldnt

Limited-Clear wrote:So your answer is don't tell anyone that Septa needs more money, then they won't get any, and they can cut service to lines that fall apart because of the lack of money? Keep fares down and let the service and track deteriorate into levels like that seen in the later conrail days, if you look around you will see the money Septa gets does go back into the system, new welded track, new wires, rehabbing sub stations, new trains, new stations, new signage, and that's just on the RRD side.

As for connections you are beating a dead horse, you have tried it before and now you bring it up again, because YOU don't have a perfect 5 minute connection indicates the whole service is crap and overpriced, come on, taxes went up, cost of living went up but you still want 1983 prices, really.....

Now we have taken this totally off topic, let's try to go back to it.

The fact is people don't agree with the higher fare for NJ, however few realize why, they need to petition the state of NJ, not complain at Septa, what would you if you were running the company, just give a freebie to states who don't contribute, of course you wouldnt

No offense, but i don't really care what your assumptions about me lead you to believe. Eighty percent of the things i say on here are completely taken in the wrong tone or context, even after large long winded attempts at explanations. I give up, i don't care anymore.

West trenton is in zone 5 because of a few possible reasons. One, trenton is busy & the line has high demand. Two, it runs 98% on the NEC, which is owned, maintained, dispatched, and traction powered by amtrak. Three, west trenton line is not owned by NJ or NJT, but CSX, using SEPTA traction power, dispatched by SEPTA (or CSX?). And 4... West trenton also has no other service aside from a few peak hour buses to trenton transit center. Another possible reason is that SEPTA and NJT both run buses that connect trenton with NJT, so there is an alternative that may be cheaper to run vs the train. Finally, i feel that because west trenton is solely a SEPTA station with wires to it from philadelphia, it costs them less to operate those trains.

If someone has the real concrete answer, i'd love to hear it.

25Hz wrote:No offense, but i don't really care what your assumptions about me lead you to believe. Eighty percent of the things i say on here are completely taken in the wrong tone or context, even after large long winded attempts at explanations. I give up, i don't care anymore.

It's more than 80%. It really requires a serious round of introspection. The long winded explanations do not help.

The next time you write something that you think someone might take out of context, hit "Save Draft" (it's down below the text entry box).

It's ok. Use it.

Go get a drink.

Or a snack.

Look out the window and take a deep breath.

Then close your computer and go to bed.

Go to work or school in the morning.

THEN after a nice meal, open your computer back up.

Re-read what you wrote. It will be there, I promise.

Then re-write it and go back to step 1. "Save Draft"

Until then, this post is closed for a "let's all breathe into a paper bag" moment.

West Trenton was not originally put into the outermost zone (then 6) when it was established. I don't recall the year in which the separate New Jersey zone was established, but I'm guessing that it was in the 1990s.

West Trenton was added to the then-zone-6 effective with the July 1, 2007, rate changes.

This is intended to be a factual post, not one intended to generate a discussion.

rslitman wrote:West Trenton was not originally put into the outermost zone (then 6) when it was established. I don't recall the year in which the separate New Jersey zone was established, but I'm guessing that it was in the 1990s.

West Trenton was added to the then-zone-6 effective with the July 1, 2007, rate changes.

This is intended to be a factual post, not one intended to generate a discussion.

RS: I will second this - SEPTA established Zone 6 when they began the limited service to Coatesville and Parkesburg during the 90s
and Trenton was moved from Zone 5 to 6 at that point - I recall Matt Mitchell mentioning that SEPTA wanted to maximize revenue
from riders using the NJT connection at Trenton...After western Main Line service was moved back to terminate at Downingtown
Trenton was by itself in Zone 6 - until the 2007 fare changes added West Trenton...

MACTRAXX

So coatseville and parkesburg were zone 6 stations? How frequent was the parkesburg service?