VRE may bring on legal heat to Amtrak

Unfortunately the article is much to long to copy/paste here. So this is the link: http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2010 ... 010/549942

Summary: VRE says Amtrak is dragging their feet and changes the rules as the game is being played, putting VRE/Keolis in an unfair position for a changeover in operators. VRE hand-delivered a letter to Virginia Senator Warner asking for Amtrak's cooperation. The operations board has suggested everything from a kumbaya session to legal prompting. Amtrak says they aren't doing anything wrong and rules changes (like the amount of correct answers needed on their test to pass) are national. VRE says that may be true, but they are notified about it months later. Keolis has hired almost everyone, and written tests and training trains have begun. Amtrak and VRE have also confirmed that if a changeover cannot be cemented by June 28, Amtrak will continue to operate up to a few weeks over that time until Keolis is secure in their operation. Both entities stress that passengers will not be without service.

Personally, I do see Amtrak in the "poor looser" category a bit, but there are also rules that they have to follow I'm sure. It just seems like VRE is told "5", then Amtrak comes back and says "7". Or "green and red" turns to "red but not so much green" (really bad examples, just trying to make a point). There's been nothing but issues arising from the change in operators, starting in October when Keolis was awarded and Amtrak sent letters to government entities saying that VRE didn't play by the rules and the decision wasn't fair. It's been one thing after another since then, and yes, Amtrak really has gone "public" saying that Keolis isn't ready, VRE didn't think ahead, and that it was a bad decision.

Looks like Amtrak is doing everything in their power to ensure that VRE will never contract with them ever again. Being poor losers over losing a competitive bid only makes the customer ANGRY and MAD!

Once VRE gets its trains operating, watch them get even by having a few trains break down in front of Amtrak trains on purpose, making them hours late....

These are professional companies, not 5 year olds.

Ain't gonna happen.

HokieNav wrote:These are professional companies, not 5 year olds.

Ain't gonna happen.

Exactly!! That's how I feel. It's like reading about grade-schoolers. "My mom said I don't have to listen to you." "You're mean! You can't be in my club." "I don't wanna be in your club anyways!" etc etc

While CSX and Norfolk Southern are cooperating with VRE during this transition, Amtrak keeps interfering.

Keolis crews will still need to be on Amtrak property as VRE trains will still need to be park at Ivy City

Obviously, Amtrak is not happy that they lost the contract.

What interference????? they Tried to keep the crews they paid for, and gave them an incentive to stay with Amtrak.
Amtrak also requires a 88 on test scores, same as for other crews, VRE is crying cause Boardman in his letter said 85%.
In my opinion I would try to get safety over semantics.
Most engineers hiring out at VRE are layed off junior people from NJT that have little experience in running trains.

I wish I knew where people come up with there conclusions on this board. Amtrak isnt interfering with Keolis-VRE. They are trying to protect there interest, meaning the employees who are EMPLOYED by Amtrak and worked the VRE. All the money and time that was spent training these employees shouldnt be wasted by letting them go to VRE and if the employee chooses to go, then they are free to, but they are giving up there roster spot and dare I say, a more stable company. Theres no guarantee that Keolis will be around working VRE in 5 years. Amtrak raised there test scores about 2 years ago. When I went thru the engineer program, You had to score an 85 total. After my class, they bumped it up to 90(The article says 88 but that isnt correct, its 90) so I dont know where everyone assumes it was done to put the squeeze on VRE.If Amtrak wanted to be a prick, they could simply block the VRE from accessing Union Station and Ivy City. VRE was trying to be slick from the get go by awarding the contract to a French Company THAT HAS NO AMERICAN RAIL EXPERIENCE, and then try to terminate the trains at Le ' Efant Plaza and have people switch to the Metro. If you ask me, its VRE baiting Amtrak There has been no bulletins, memo's etc etc from Amtrak stating to its employees that they were not allowed to go to VRE. I know of a few employees who worked the VRE services and I have asked them and they said this is stuff that VRE is making up to make themselves look like they arent at fault for this nonsense. Its funny that VRE gave the contract to the French for a Million less a year then what they were paying Amtrak, but yet Keolis and VRE dropped the ball on the transistion and now they want Amtrak to continue running the service for them until the transistion can be made. If Amtrak was really playing sore loser as some of you have said, they would either say screw you, or we want twice the normal amount it wouldve cost the VRE to pay Amtrak to run the services but yet none of that was ever said. Just my opinion from an Amtrak engineer who has inside info, not stuff that people read from little newspapers.....

Heres a snippet from an article that was posted on the BLE website

Amtrak: French company not ready for VRE transition
(The following story by Uriah A. Kiser appeared on the News & Messenger website on May 20, 2010.)

PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY, Va. — The French company slated to operate Virginia Railway Express trains will not be ready to take over as scheduled, despite assurances they would be.

Engineers and conductors working for Keolis Rail Services of America were scheduled to take the reigns from Amtrak June 28, after VRE awarded the company a 5-year, $85 million contract last fall.

The announcement made by Amtrak officials late Thursday comes one month after Amtrak sent a letter to Virginia Transportation Secretary Sean T. Connaughton warning him the company would not be ready for the transition and asking his office to closely monitor the situation.

Amtrak says VRE CEO Dale Zehner met with Amtrak President and CEO Joseph Boardman on Thursday and asked him to extend the current operations contract with VRE.

"Mr. Zehner asked Amtrak to continue operating VRE service for at least several weeks beyond the scheduled transition date," said Amtrak spokesman Steve Kulm.

Unless someone is directly involved with either VRE, Amtrak or Keolis, no one knows exactly what's going on behind the scenes. And everyone has an agenda. If you ask an Amtrak employee who is working on VRE currently, they are going to have a different answer for a question that a member of the VRE staff or one of the new hires for Keolis. The media has had a field day covering all this and that's where most people are getting all their information.

The bottom line is, this is school playground drama. No one said that Amtrak is deliberately trying to screw VRE (at least I don't think so, not here). But if scores were changed 2 years ago and then VRE is told two months ago...well that looks bad for Amtrak. Then again, that's what the media says that VRE says. I'm not protecting anyone's interest. VRE messed up, yes. Keolis could be a good company, yes. Amtrak basically has a monopoly for passenger travel in the US, yes. Combine the different interests and the result is a fiasco when trying to change operators for the first time in 18 years.

I fail to see what point youre trying to make. The fact of the matter is that Amtrak changed there grading system about 2 years ago and this is system wide and this was to get a higher grade employee. VRE also claims that Amtrak is getting in the way of qualifying guys, especially guys who were already qualified over the territory. Let me tell you something, Amtrak does the same thing to anyone who was qualified on the NEC whether they worked for NJT or Septa or Conrail. My qualifications didnt carry over when I worked for Septa and came over to work Amtrak from NYC to DC, and I was qualified from HAM "Hamilton" to BACON "south of Elkton Md" . This is just drama that VRE is cooking up to justify the ineffecient manner that the transition is being handled by themselves and Keolis. The fact is Keolis was awarded the contract about 6 months ago and they basically started to hire guys about a month ago...Come on now.Did Amtrak mettle with Veolia and Connex when they took over MBTA operations and Metrolink???No. Why would this be any different?

the-rail-life wrote:Unfortunately the article is much to long to copy/paste here. So this is the link: http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2010 ... 010/549942

Summary: VRE says Amtrak is dragging their feet and changes the rules as the game is being played, putting VRE/Keolis in an unfair position for a changeover in operators. VRE hand-delivered a letter to Virginia Senator Warner asking for Amtrak's cooperation. The operations board has suggested everything from a kumbaya session to legal prompting. Amtrak says they aren't doing anything wrong and rules changes (like the amount of correct answers needed on their test to pass) are national. VRE says that may be true, but they are notified about it months later. Keolis has hired almost everyone, and written tests and training trains have begun. Amtrak and VRE have also confirmed that if a changeover cannot be cemented by June 28, Amtrak will continue to operate up to a few weeks over that time until Keolis is secure in their operation. Both entities stress that passengers will not be without service.

Personally, I do see Amtrak in the "poor looser" category a bit, but there are also rules that they have to follow I'm sure. It just seems like VRE is told "5", then Amtrak comes back and says "7". Or "green and red" turns to "red but not so much green" (really bad examples, just trying to make a point). There's been nothing but issues arising from the change in operators, starting in October when Keolis was awarded and Amtrak sent letters to government entities saying that VRE didn't play by the rules and the decision wasn't fair. It's been one thing after another since then, and yes, Amtrak really has gone "public" saying that Keolis isn't ready, VRE didn't think ahead, and that it was a bad decision.

And dont forget that the unions appear to be siding with Amtrak in this - I think some one over at VRE/Keolis is starting to yell about restraint of trade?

electricron wrote:Looks like Amtrak is doing everything in their power to ensure that VRE will never contract with them ever again. Being poor losers over losing a competitive bid only makes the customer ANGRY and MAD!

Once VRE gets its trains operating, watch them get even by having a few trains break down in front of Amtrak trains on purpose, making them hours late....

Not to worry. Until all the MPIs get on the property no one will have to try to arrainge breakdowns... They'll happen on their own!

electricron wrote:Looks like Amtrak is doing everything in their power to ensure that VRE will never contract with them ever again. Being poor losers over losing a competitive bid only makes the customer ANGRY and MAD!

Once VRE gets its trains operating, watch them get even by having a few trains break down in front of Amtrak trains on purpose, making them hours late....

Gee that sounds a bit childish Ron. I can tell your lack of railroad experience is really showing. VRE can try to arrainge to have there trains break down in front of Amtrak trains, if they could even have the brains to arrainge that, but remember, these trains still have to access Union Station and Ivy City and you dont think the Amtrak dispatchers will screw these trains getting in or out of amtrak land???Grow up everyone. As I mentioned, Amtrak isnt doing anything wrong and Amtrak isnt blocking any employee to leave. Amtrak can and will give incentives or bonuses to keep people, but big enterprises do the same but amtrak is doing it and they are in the wrong. News Flash folks. Most of the employees that VRE claim they are getting fron furloughed NJT is wrong. These guys are coming to Amtrak, and are not interested in VRE. This isnt just talk, this is true. Remember I work for the railroad and know whats going on in the inside, not the armchair thoughts and decisions that go on , on these forums....Waaaaaahhhhh lets have VRE breakdown in front of Amtrak trains, Waaahhh...COME ON........ Childish

electricron wrote:Looks like Amtrak is doing everything in their power to ensure that VRE will never contract with them ever again. Being poor losers over losing a competitive bid only makes the customer ANGRY and MAD!

Once VRE gets its trains operating, watch them get even by having a few trains break down in front of Amtrak trains on purpose, making them hours late....

Not to worry, as VRE is expecting it's first new locomotive to arrive in July and then one new locomotive per month after that through next year. Currently, VRE is performing riggrous maintenace on their old locomotives to ensure they don't break down. In fact, only 2-3 have broke down this spring

I'd have to agree with Budd on this one. We are dealing with professional companies and they have knowledgeable managers that know how to run a railroad. Any thoughts of scheduling sabotage are ridiculous and anyways if you even want to look at it that way they could both screw each other just as easily so whats the point?

These companies have been around and like any company, I'm sure they'd like to avoid the drama,

Davis

VRE service is unlike MBTA or Metrolink. It is a smaller commuter contract and in the vicinity of DC there is plenty of work available for employees that remain with Amtrak ( me!!!). Keolis's problems were brought upon themselves.

VRE studied Metrolink's carrier change and determined by the numbers alone that 70% of the employees working VRE service would remain with a new carrier. We told them last November we were not leaving Amtrak. Keolis continued to believe we would leave and come over to them and they would have a "turn-key" start up service. They gave us until April 30, 2010 to sign a letter of intent. After 2 open house sessions we did not attend, 2 recruiting visits to the outlying yards, and in some cases, VRE personally handing business cards to individuals they got the message.... We were not leaving Amtrak! Keolis did not start hiring people outside of Amtrak until May 1.

We did not stay at Amtrak by threat or coersion. We stayed with Amtrak simply because Keolis cannot guarentee employment past the 5 year contract they have with VRE. We would lose national senority to run 100 miles of track. The proposed contract Keolis offered is no where near historically the raises and benefits offered by Amtrak. For younger employees there will be no chance of promotion into management and very unlikely any chance to move from train service to engine service. There are many more opportunities and benefits of a larger company.

This is not to fault anyone for their personal reasons for working for Keolis. But it is completely unfair to the employees and passengers to hire, train, qualify, and begin service in the span of May 1 to June 28. The people barred from the property were PREVIOUS employees long ago fired from Amtrak.Ones that were allowed to quit Amtrak for past discipline problems were allowed back as Keolis employees. I witnessed the FRA sit in on rules classes by Keolis's request to make sure things were done fairly. Testing and scoring was changed long before Keolis even scheduled their first class. Amtrak even had to deliver the rule books after sitting in an office for over a month because Keolis had not come to pick them up. Amtrak has provided trains in the terminal and instructors to help them qualify. And VRE alledges and wants to sue Amtrak for interfering?