Noise Complaints about New York and Atlantic Railway

[Tony Tantillo]

Has anybody read this article in the Queens Chronicle? I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s near the rail yard area described, and do remember the occasional loud coupling and train whistles. I was about 3 long blocks away from the Montauk Branch tracks.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?news ... 2800&rfi=8

[krispy]

Mr. Krebs is to be commended for tolerating them so well, I don't think I could contain myself so well. I would've offered the young lady who instigated the whole thing a recording of the whiniest baby I could find, in response to her offer of the trains blowing at the crossing.

I would have been quick to whip out the bullhorn, demand their silence, point out the yard has been 24/7 since prior to all of their miserable lives, that if you move next to a railyard because the price is right, then expect a little noise. My exposed posterior would follow...

The guy whining about the fumes amused me, maybe he'd prefer tractor trailer exhaust instead. Perhaps some of the MP-15's should be "Cleansed" after a weekend of idling, with someone shouting "ha HA mother@#$%^&!"

It's not like it's a yard full of DE/DMs...

[DogBert]

Typical Crying NIMBY idiots. Wasn't the yard there before even the neighborhood was?

I live close to hell gate bridge, the house rumbles when a freight goes by, but I sure as heck don't complain.

I say level the whole damned neighborhood and make an intermodal yard. See how they'd like them apples... hey, if service grows and grows and grows, the government might need to take the land in the name of interstate commerce. Maybe Krebs should throw that at them?

[ElTrain]

Maybe these folks should move closer to Kennedy or LaGuardia. Would they really want the railroad to shut down and have 20,000+ more trucks on Queens and LI roads? Think that might cause asthma? Folks that complain that loud ought to realize that they live a little town called New York. You want peace and quiet? Move upstate!

[DogBert]

They're probably most upset about the saturday morning ops, my guess is that has been due to the stone traffic lately? half of me says I'd be upset too if i was woken up early on a saturday morning, but the other half knows that CP & P&W rumble past my house in the middle of the night just about every weeknight, and I only hear it if I'm awake. If the slightest noise woke me up every night, I sure as heck wouldn't live here.

Oh, and csx goes by every saturday morning, and I don't notice that much either...

Grant it the squeal of switching cars is probably louder than a train going by, but those GEs can be pretty friggin' loud when they're struggling up the hill...

If it upsets them that much, they should move. NYC is always short of housing, and I'm sure people who don't care that much about the noise will move right in.

[alcoc420]

I admit I am biased but, use Alco's or GE's instead of EMD's. I have never heard an engine noisier than an MP-15. Some M420W's and HR412's could be found. Ever listen to a freight with both EMD's and GE's? The only locos you hear are the EMD's.

Seriously, I offer the following ideas:

1. Some people will not be happy unless the RR shuts down, but most people would appreciate some improvement.

2. Changing the hours of ops would help the most.

3. Changing to GE's or Alco's will noticably reduce the noise, but then people might complain about the smoke.

4. Making the crossings such that no horns would be blown would help a lot, but after the runaway LIRR train, this might not be popular. Also, the cost of study, approvals and construction is substantial.

5. Track improvements would help regarding flange squeal, creaking noise, etc.

6. According to HUD noise assessment guidelines, higher track speeds reduce noise pollution. Shortens the duration of noise more than the volume is increased.

[Jayjay1213]

How can you be expected to be taken seriously when you say something like this? Come out of the railfan haze and give up the alcos. Alco420, maybe you should reread what you posted. Except for the first thing you posted, none of the other statements makes sense, or is based on reality. Change an entire roster? Track improvements do not necessarily make less noise, go stand in Jamaica and listen to them squeal thru the turn outs. Raise track speeds? This is a yard I remind you. Also, to turn railbuff, I do not know where you railfan, but everytime i see a NS, or CSX consist pass by, i always hear the GE's first, with what i call the GE gurgle.



Jason

[DogBert]

How can you be expected to be taken seriously when you say something like this? Come out of the railfan haze and give up the alcos. Alco420, maybe you should reread what you posted. Except for the first thing you posted, none of the other statements makes sense, or is based on reality. Change an entire roster? Track improvements do not necessarily make less noise, go stand in Jamaica and listen to them squeal thru the turn outs. Raise track speeds? This is a yard I remind you. Also, to turn railbuff, I do not know where you railfan, but everytime i see a NS, or CSX consist pass by, i always hear the GE's first, with what i call the GE gurgle.



Jason

Seriously, my friends and family probably think it's nuts that I can tell if CSX is running over hell gate with GEs or SDs or a combo just by the noise they make. GEs gurgle, SD's have almost a high pitched whining sound going on, and i can always hear the GEs well before any EMDs...

Here's a serious question/solutions: if they can build soundproofing barriers around highways, why not some of the yard? It'd be ugly, and bad for railfans, but it would aid security a little...

Since the community wants it, it should be paid for out of taxes, not NY&A... though obviously if the RR pitched in some it would be good for PR...

LIRR might not go for it though... put up one wall, and every community will want one.

I guess they can at least plant a lot more trees and shrubs.

[Tony Tantillo]

While the railroad went through Glendale in the nineteenth century, the houses close to the track were probably built in the late nineteenth / early twentieth century (guess).

The biggest problem is that the NYA is trying to increase its business past levels that the LIRR used to have.

I don't think you can build a wall near the photo in the article. That two track section is somewhat a tight fit. Additionally, the Edsall Avenue area where the LIRR travels in Glendale is residential. When the railroad gets to Otto Road the area gets more commercial. Even there housing is close by.

[jayrmli]

A couple of points on this:

NYAR offered to plant more trees along the ROW as a natural sound barrier. The Community Board turned that idea down. I can only imagine what they would think of a wall. (I like the idea of a wall however. All the residents would hate it, particularly when their local youths cover it with grafitti. We can place in large letters at the top: Here is the wall that YOU requested.)

As for the fumes that are choking the residents, there is one train the NYAR can cut first - the Holiday Santa Train. Instead of Santa, the Grinch can walk up (no emissions there unless he ate beans for lunch) and hand out pieces of coal for the kids. A note can be attached to the coal that states "This non-Christmas celebration courtesy of Community Board No. 5."

As for the horn blowing, I have personally turned in the residents at the crossing in question walking and driving around the lowered gates as my train is approaching. If they don't want the horn blown loudly, the least they can do is stay off the right of way.

It was said above they all purchased a house at below market value because of its proximity to the yard. Renters are paying less rent as well. If that's the bed they made, they should lay in it, or move.

Jay

[alcoc420]

I did not mean to strike a nerve. JayJay's points are taken to heart. I thought the area was both a yard and main line.

Please permit me to respond to the comparative noise volumes. Most of my railfanning is in western NY, near Batavia, Buffalo, Letchworth State Park and Lockport, with occasional stops in Utica and Binghamton (not in Western NY). I have been going there many times a year since the early 80's. Maybe my hearing is different, but I could alway tell an EMD train long before a GE train. It usually means the difference as to whether I can get trackside before the train arrives. I am usually 1 mile from CSX or 2 miles from NS when listening for trains. Admittedly, the difference is less noticable than it was before Dash8's and 9's existed. (Interesting that newer stuff would seem noisier, considering noise standards should be tougher. Perhaps newer EMD's are quieter.)

It might be worth noting that my perception regarding comparative sound volumes started before I ever heard of the names Alco or EMD, and when I thought EMD's were the best stuff. In 1976 77, the LIRR got the GP38's. I did not know who made what, but these new locomotives were cool. The looked more modern, did not smoke much, engineers could see out the front, had a better paint scheme, etc. Better than those old, rounded, beat engines that ran backward. The only bad thing I thought was that the new engines were noisier.

[mainline]

Jay the wall would be cost prohibitive. Foreman out at Port Jefferson told me the original wall the L.I. installed at the Port Jeff yard was about a cool million. The railroad didn't foot the bill. Funding provided by a grant.

[jayrmli]

Bill:

I was speaking tongue in cheek about the wall. Personally, they shouldn't do anything. These people knew what they were getting into when they moved next to a railyard.

The residents at the crossing should complain to those living in New Hyde Park. They'd be laughed at by those residents!

Jay

[JoeLIRR]

Aint that true Jay.

there is plenty of other places to live that is not in suca a close proximity to an active ROW.

and as to what you said about the pple crossing lowered gates, maby a few unmarked cops should be there (i know it will cost money) with spike strips. after the assholes round the gates they get 4 flats, and up to a maximum of 5 yrs in jail for going around the lowered gates.. the stifist penelitys to the ones who live anlong the row in question, when thay mone n grone bout the horns being blowen for there own safey.

I dont live 2 far form Valley yard & WH Branch, and i always here the trains rumbel by even the horns when going through Valley interlocking or the xings over @ westwood and im a good 10 blocks away(from valley yard). I just learned to live w/it . same thing if u live near a airport. i also here the jets going in/out of JFK. you just learn to live w/ your suroundings.

the damm babys that r doing all this bitching really seem to need a comonsence test.

[SeldenJrFireman]

Instead of doing the regular Grade crossing signal, wait until your real close to it and just blast the horn once. that should wake them up and make them decide what is better.

Instead of the horns, would a fast-paced bell be allowed, or must a horn sound at the grade?