Turning trains in Chicago

Hi

I'm a long time lurker-first time poster, a lot of interesting stuff on here! Anyway I read a while ago that Amtrak doesn't turn trains at Chicago anymore, Is that the case? Thanks in advance for any help.

Depends how you define "turn" and which trains we're talking about. Most LD's are wyed at 14th street after dropping their inbound passengers, some occasionally wye on their way in. The corridor trains are usually bracketed by power or have a cab car, so they're not turned, just change ends.

From youtube, these clips show the operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2eUb6JNTFI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtEAkun9c08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXk1xVt_inY

I apologize, I should have been more clear. I meant the Long distance trains. Thanks for the response!

Thanks for the clarification. Those trains are almost always wyed at 14th street after dropping pax.

Some operate on fairly short turn to another train. The Eagle arrives at 1:52p and generally turns for the CNO, departing at 8p. The reverse also happens, CNO arriving 9a turns for Eagle departing 145p. That happened at one time, not sure if it happens anymore. Given the track config, I'm curious if the inbound CNO backs up the north leg into CUS, then departs later straight out to Texas. The inbound Eagle can go straight in, drop pax, be cleaned and load, back out down the north leg of the wye, then up and over the bridge to CN and New Orleans.

Tadman wrote:Thanks for the clarification. Those trains are almost always wyed at 14th street after dropping pax.

Some operate on fairly short turn to another train. The Eagle arrives at 1:52p and generally turns for the CNO, departing at 8p. The reverse also happens, CNO arriving 9a turns for Eagle departing 145p. That happened at one time, not sure if it happens anymore. Given the track config, I'm curious if the inbound CNO backs up the north leg into CUS, then departs later straight out to Texas. The inbound Eagle can go straight in, drop pax, be cleaned and load, back out down the north leg of the wye, then up and over the bridge to CN and New Orleans.

the outbound power for 21 now needs to be cab signal tested before departure, and I believe right now that has to be done in the yard ( if they relay the power and do not provide a fresh unit for 21)

AMTK1007 wrote:

Tadman wrote:Thanks for the clarification. Those trains are almost always wyed at 14th street after dropping pax.

Some operate on fairly short turn to another train. The Eagle arrives at 1:52p and generally turns for the CNO, departing at 8p. The reverse also happens, CNO arriving 9a turns for Eagle departing 145p. That happened at one time, not sure if it happens anymore. Given the track config, I'm curious if the inbound CNO backs up the north leg into CUS, then departs later straight out to Texas. The inbound Eagle can go straight in, drop pax, be cleaned and load, back out down the north leg of the wye, then up and over the bridge to CN and New Orleans.

the outbound power for 21 now needs to be cab signal tested before departure, and I believe right now that has to be done in the yard ( if they relay the power and do not provide a fresh unit for 21)

Where does 21 operate over cab signal territory?

MattW wrote:Where does 21 operate over cab signal territory?

I assume in Illinois between Joliet and Alton, where 110 mph operations are to begin soon. I'm aware some of the ties need replacing south of Springfield, never-the-less, the cab signaling or positive train control capability should be operable.

Tadman wrote:Thanks for the clarification. Those trains are almost always wyed at 14th street after dropping pax.

Some operate on fairly short turn to another train. The Eagle arrives at 1:52p and generally turns for the CNO, departing at 8p. The reverse also happens, CNO arriving 9a turns for Eagle departing 145p. That happened at one time, not sure if it happens anymore. Given the track config, I'm curious if the inbound CNO backs up the north leg into CUS, then departs later straight out to Texas. The inbound Eagle can go straight in, drop pax, be cleaned and load, back out down the north leg of the wye, then up and over the bridge to CN and New Orleans.

I normally stay out of Western Operations, but from everything I've read, The Texas Eagle and City Of New Orleans turn into each other....but the next day. In other words, 22 arrives and turns for 59 the following day. 58 arrives and turns for 21 the following day.

Is there any room, in amtrak, or in the physical locations at chi & alb for a turntable? Doesn't need to associate with a roundhouse, just a rotating pad with a track on it.

25Hz wrote:Is there any room, in amtrak, or in the physical locations at chi & alb for a turntable? Doesn't need to associate with a roundhouse, just a rotating pad with a track on it.

From googling it and personally knowing the area, I'm pretty sure you could fit one at Albany, but why?

They can already wye and entire train. Not sure turning just an engine would do them much good.

ThirdRail7 wrote:

Tadman wrote:Thanks for the clarification. Those trains are almost always wyed at 14th street after dropping pax.

Some operate on fairly short turn to another train. The Eagle arrives at 1:52p and generally turns for the CNO, departing at 8p. The reverse also happens, CNO arriving 9a turns for Eagle departing 145p. That happened at one time, not sure if it happens anymore. Given the track config, I'm curious if the inbound CNO backs up the north leg into CUS, then departs later straight out to Texas. The inbound Eagle can go straight in, drop pax, be cleaned and load, back out down the north leg of the wye, then up and over the bridge to CN and New Orleans.

I normally stay out of Western Operations, but from everything I've read, The Texas Eagle and City Of New Orleans turn into each other....but the next day. In other words, 22 arrives and turns for 59 the following day. 58 arrives and turns for 21 the following day.

Pretty sure its a same day turn .
The Capitol used to do a same day turn for one of the western trains too .

David Benton wrote:

ThirdRail7 wrote:

Tadman wrote:Thanks for the clarification. Those trains are almost always wyed at 14th street after dropping pax.

Some operate on fairly short turn to another train. The Eagle arrives at 1:52p and generally turns for the CNO, departing at 8p. The reverse also happens, CNO arriving 9a turns for Eagle departing 145p. That happened at one time, not sure if it happens anymore. Given the track config, I'm curious if the inbound CNO backs up the north leg into CUS, then departs later straight out to Texas. The inbound Eagle can go straight in, drop pax, be cleaned and load, back out down the north leg of the wye, then up and over the bridge to CN and New Orleans.

I normally stay out of Western Operations, but from everything I've read, The Texas Eagle and City Of New Orleans turn into each other....but the next day. In other words, 22 arrives and turns for 59 the following day. 58 arrives and turns for 21 the following day.

Pretty sure its a same day turn .
The Capitol used to do a same day turn for one of the western trains too .

As I have always mentioned, I am here to learn. I'm interested in knowing what you're basing your thoughts on. Are you basing it on something that USED to occur with the Capitol?

Definetly used to be a capitol turn but is no longer .
The cono /eagle swap is based on whats been said on here . besides , what would the point of swapping them the next day be ? no equipment saved there .

David Benton wrote: The cono /eagle swap is based on whats been said on here . besides , what would the point of swapping them the next day be ? no equipment saved there .

This goes back to what I was referring to in the Capacity Management/Revenue Enhancement thread. It's not about saving equipment. It's about giving yourself a chance to provide reliable service. As Tadman noted, if the set is scheduled to arrive at 9am and depart at 1:45p, you have no room for any type of delay. Even though there are trains that have tight turns, they generally occur at the outlying points (turnaround.) Both of these trains are fed from the Chicago pool, so when they return, the break allows them to receive the service they can't get at the turnaround point. As a result, you have a chance at reducing initial terminal delay due to late turning/servicing of equipment.

At any rate, I was looking at information that appeared to be up to date, which is why I asked where you received your information. Things change without notice. Perhaps AMT1007 will jump in and let us know what the deal is.

I've been at Chicago and watched the Texas Eagle turn for the City of New Orleans. Amtrak is only doing ONE turn now days in Chicago for its long distance trains. This was MUCH greater in previous years. One can argue the lack of turns of long distance equipment is poor equipment utilization. Same day turns save equipment, but can allow long distance trains (e.g. sleepers, coaches, diners, sightseer lounge cars, etc.) to be operate with additional coaches or sleepers.

And since there is only ONE trainset being turned at Chicago, there's enough reserve equipment that could be used to "make-up" a train set if the time to turn the two trains gets tight or even becomes non-existant. I'd also argue that if the trains have a problem in the turn (i.e. Chicago struggles with this turn), it would be eliminated.

If the Southwest Chief and Capitol Limited did a same day turn of equipment once again - eastbound and westbound - I believe this saved TWO full long distance train sets. That's four extra sleepers that could be and at least six extra coaches that could be re-allocated to other long distance train sets. This means the Capitol Limited and Southwest Chief could operate with both an additional sleeper and coach, which is often needed. Amtrak runs three sleepers across the northernmost transcon route - the Empire Builder most of the year - three sleepers on the California Zephyr in peak periods (once again), and could offer three sleepers across the more premiere East Coast - Midwest Train (the Capitol Limited). And then the "fastest way" from the Midwest to the West Coast (i.e. Southwest Chief) could then run with three sleepers and more coaches during peak periods. The Capitol Limited has proven in a number of studies that it would benefit from an additional sleeper during most of the year due to its large (end point to end point traffic as well as Chicago to Pittsburgh traffic).

The Southwest Chief and Capitol Limited same day turn was eliminated because it had reliability issues AND enough equipment became available so that another Capitol Limited trainset could be added to avoid the poential [winter] risk. I know David Gunn looked at this train to possibly operate with just two trainsets. He wanted the eastbound in by 12 noon reliably and have the train turned to go out at 5:30 p.m. The Chicago turn was not an issue. But then the Three Rivers train set came off and the Pittsburgh market had to be better served particularly by this train.

Amtrak should be able to turn trains quicker and easier be it long distance or corridor.

Sunnyside Yard has always been a disaster. Even if this yard was given completely new equipment to turn regularly in five hours, I don't think they could do it. Same day turns at Sunnyside coupled with tweaks in the long distance trains' schedule could free-up the precious Viewliner fleet that goes "sold out" WAY to often.

With Crew occupying Viewliner sleeper space, Amtrak needs to operate all the Viewliners it possibly can.

Even with better servicing facilities now in place at Hialeah, Amtrak still won't come off their number of keeping "39" Viewliners in service with 11 in reserve. The new Viewliner sleepers and diners can't come quick enough.