Trump proposes cutting long distance support

The California Zephyr seem to be close to I-80 from the Chicago area to the Bay Area with the exception that it goes through Denver while I-80 doesn't.

daylight4449 wrote:Then lets assume that the long distance trains stay on... What do the Autotrain and Palmetto do or offer that allows them to cover that much of a chunk of their costs?

The Palmetto is a day train, serving business markets, an NEC anchor, and areas lesser-served by airlines and having lots of revenue per floorplate (no rooms, no diner). It is the only coaches-only LD.
The Autotrain hauls cars and keeps its sleepers & diners busy at full fares, and does so between endpoints that have both seen explosive 3x to 5x growth since the 1970s

The West is so (relatively) empty that I'm afraid the lessons don't travel.

I think the east coast has the most promise for more efficient operation, by virtue of it having multiple trains. Though it does have a few states that do not currently support corridor trains.
If the northern states ( NC,VA)portion of the LD trains were integrated more with the corridor trains, it could allow crew bases / change points that could reduce the need for crew nites away from home base.

If they did zero Amtrak LD in the next fiscal year, there would not be enough time to gracefully look into alternatives such as increased fares, limoliner (luxury bus), state supported trains, private trains, state supported buses, tweaking types of service, altering routes etc. You can't subsidize something for 45 years then just shut it down with 6 months notice. That could be the starting point of a negotiation, however.

Exactly. The cost of shutting down the LD routes would mean Amtrak would need more subsidy for that year, not less. But it seems this administration does not let little details like that get in the way of its proposals.
A more reasonable proposal would be a 5 year target to reduce or eliminate the LD subsidy. By the way , I wonder how the proposal to zero out on board food subsidies is panning out? That ,must be close to 1/2 way through its 5 year period.

BandA wrote:You can't subsidize something for 45 years then just shut it down with 6 months notice.

Care to bet on that?

All Amtrak has to do is put up the 180 notices of discontinuance. Do you really think the STB will not fall in on the President's desires? The message will be sent them clearly and unambiguously.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ailed.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My posting of the above link does not constitute an endorsement of the melodramatic perceived finality of the PROPOSED budget cuts. Nevertheless, nice shots on board the train!

Jeff in the UK budgets are final. the government must have the support of its mps or the opposition can move a vote of no confidence, forcing an early election.

Here, Presidential budget proposals are generally "DOA" because every "MP" here wants a slice of the pie for their district. There's not nearly the party discipline here that exists in the UK. I can't remember the last time Congress passed a budget and the President signed it; mostly, it's "CR's", or continuing resolutions, that fund programs.

So the hysterical ramblings in the article are just that; hysterical.

Quick teaching point:

There is no Constitutional requirement for the President to submit a budget.

There is no Constitutional requirement for the Congress to adopt a budget.

There is a Constitutional requirement for the Congress to pass Appropriations Acts, and for the President to either:
- sign them
- veto them
- let them be enacted without his signature
- when the Congress adjourns (it never does anymore) to veto them without his signature.

Jeff Smith wrote:Here, Presidential budget proposals are generally "DOA" because every "MP" here wants a slice of the pie for their district. There's not nearly the party discipline here that exists in the UK. I can't remember the last time Congress passed a budget and the President signed it; mostly, it's "CR's", or continuing resolutions, that fund programs.

So the hysterical ramblings in the article are just that; hysterical.

The Daily Mail is a "tabloid". Its the level of journalism you would expect from it, as opposed to the "broadsheets",who you would expect to investigate more thoroughly. .

John_Perkowski wrote:Quick teaching point:

There is no Constitutional requirement for the President to submit a budget.

There is no Constitutional requirement for the Congress to adopt a budget.

In case you were talking to me, didn't say there were....

David, yes, same scenario here with the papers. My British paper of choice is The Sun (can you say Page 3?)

David Benton wrote:The Coast Starlight is the only long distance train that runs through states that all support corridor trains. I would say it is the LD train with the biggest portion of its route shared with corridors. ...

The Coast Starlight is a great example that it's not "either/or" with corridor and LD trains, it's "both/and". The Starlight already benefits from overlapping corridor service, and further overlapping and mutual benefits are on the horizon.

This year the Stimulus-funded upgrades will cut about 10 minutes from the schedule of the Cascades Seattle-Portland stem. The presently lousy On Time Performance should greatly improve for the Cascades and the Starlight alike.

At the other end of the route, California continues making piecemeal time-saving upgrades to the Pacific Surfliner's growing L.A.-Santa Barbara-San Luis Obispo segment, it will shave the same minutes from the Starlight's overlapping schedule.

The big bang from this corridor will come in a few years, after California invests serious money to straighten curves, widen bridges, add passing sidings, double-track sections, improve signaling, etc. The state will be putting in money mainly to support more and better Surfliner service L.A.-San Luis Obispo, but also a revived Golden State/Coast Daylight train all the way up to San Jose and San Francisco. Eventually the upgrades on these 400+ miles of slow track should chop 2 hours, likely more or maybe less, out of the Starlight's run time, saving costs and passengers' time.

The Starlight's schedule hinges on Sacramento: SB arrival 6:30 in the morning, NB arrival about 12 midnight. These times put the overnight travel in the least populated segment, and they are unlikely to change more than an hour or so. But faster speeds will allow better departures and arrivals in L.A.

The NB train now leaves L.A. at 10:10 a.m., but after upgrades make for faster tracks, it could leave at 11 a.m. and still arrive at Sacramento an hour before midnight. (The connecting Surfliner now leaves San Diego at an early 6 a.m, but riders could sleep an hour later.) The SB train now reaches L.A. at 9 p.m. -- connecting to a Surfliner that arrives in San Diego at a little after 1 a.m. With a new 7 p.m. arrival in L.A., those transferring passengers could make it to S.D. by 11 p.m. These changes could be almost like adding San Diego to the Starlight's list of cities served!

And almost all of these gains from these coming upgrades on the Coast Daylight/Golden State will be a free ride for Amtrak.

A few years further ahead, California has plans for corridor service Sacramento-Chico-Redding. The NB Starlight now covers this 160-mile stretch in about 4 hrs 10 min, barely 40 mph. I'd expect to see the state work to get the average speed up to 60 mph and get this run time down closer to 2 hrs 30 min or so, saving 1 hr 30 min here. Remember we won't expect big changes to the departure time at Sacramento.

But look when those 90 minutes saved get pushed up the road: Arrive Eugene currently at 12:36 p.m., but make it 11 a.m. instead; arrive Portland now at 3:32 p.m., but 2 p.m. will be better; arrive Seattle at 8:12 p.m. now, (probably 8 p.m. soon, after the upgrades at Point Defiance kick in) but reaching Seattle at 6:30 p.m. will let you kiss your kids goodnight. And the Thruway Bus that now arrives in Vancouver, B.C. after midnight could arrive at a more civilized 10:45 p.m. instead.

Then SB, with 90 minutes to work with, the 5:30 a.m. Thruway bus out of Vancouver could leave at a more comfortable 7 a.m. The train could leave Seattle at 11 a.m., not 9:30 as now; depart Portland at 4 p.m., not 2:30 as now; depart Eugene at 6:30 p.m., not 5 p.m. as now -- and still arrive Sacramento by 6:30 in the morning. These city pairs would be much more appealing for overnight sleeper customers if riders didn't have to be awake a day or half a day before turning in.

There's also more minutes to come out of the overlapping Capitol Corridor route Sacramento-San Jose and out of the Cascades' overlapping route Eugene-Seattle, especially Portland-Eugene.

With 75% of its route overlapped by corridors, the Coast Starlight will benefit from the states' spending to upgrade the routes. Of course, without adding a dollar to Amtrak's budget, more federal grants to the states for corridor infrastructure would make things happen faster. Every minute saved from the corridor trains in the West Coast states will be saved from the Starlight's schedule. So if the Starlight isn't killed off with the other LD trains, it will get better and stronger with every passing year -- thanks to the states and their corridor trains.

Jeff: Wasn't.

...more federal grants to the states...

The dead earliest this will happen is 21 Jan 2021.