Trip Report, Amtrak Adirondack

Way back in the early 1950's there were four different routes between
New York and Montreal: Delaware and Hudson via Albany or Troy,
Rutland via Troy, New Haven, Boston & Maine and Central Vermont via
Springfield and finally a full New York Central route via Utica and
Watertown.
Five different routes were available out of Boston too, three of them were
fairly direct: Boston and Montreal via Bellows Falls and the Rutland,
Via White River Junction and the Central Vermont, via either White River
Junction or Woodsville on the Boston & Maine and Canadian Pacific. Two
additional routes via Portland, Maine and either the Maine Central and
Canadian Pacific via St. Johnsbury or via the Canadian National out of
Portland via Island Pond.
The idea of running a New York - Montreal service via Boston makes no
sense, whatsoever. Time wise, the service might be improved at least a
little bit by running the train over the Shore Line to New London and north
via Willimantic to Brattleboro. The time saving would be because they do
not have to reverse at either Springfield or Palmer and it is a straight away move via Palmer. In addition, they would not have to deal with CSX
by running this way.
I am not sure that there is enough Vermont bound business to/from the
stations on the Springfield to warrant running that way. A reasonable
connection to/from Boston at New London could be established by running
this train via New London instead of Springfield. If the Vermonter were to
run out of Boston, the train would come off very soon afterward as the
market potential out of Boston does not come even close to the market
out of New York.
If the Montrealer were ever to be put back on, it would be much better to
operate the train via New London and Willimantic as the arrival time in
the resort areas of Vermont would be during the morning instead of the
middle of the night.
Noel Weaver

I believe that if the Vermonter should return to its original route on the former B&M between Springfield and Bellows Falls. Negociate with Guilford and get the line up to par as they did with the Downeaster and I a major bottleneck of this routes running will be fixed.

Now the only other thing to to return this run to Montreal, and you'll have a very sucessful train....much like it was during the mid-70's.

Mr. CNJ, I agree that the direct route via Greenfield makes sense for any New York-Vermont train, but the problem with your suggestion is that the B&M Conn River Line north of Springfield is now basically 25 mph track and would take many millions of dollars to upgrade. The "Downeaster" precedent suggests that the Guilford organization is unlikely to do anything unless they feel that they're sufficiently well compensated for it, and so I don't think restoration of that line to passenger standards would come cheap. Given Amtrak's current financial crisis, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

TomNelligan wrote:Mr. CNJ, I agree that the direct route via Greenfield makes sense for any New York-Vermont train, but the problem with your suggestion is that the B&M Conn River Line north of Springfield is now basically 25 mph track and would take many millions of dollars to upgrade. The "Downeaster" precedent suggests that the Guilford organization is unlikely to do anything unless they feel that they're sufficiently well compensated for it, and so I don't think restoration of that line to passenger standards would come cheap. Given Amtrak's current financial crisis, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

I agree with Tom here, the line is probably in worse shape to begin with
than the Portland Line was as there is nowhere near as much freight on
it. I seem to recall reading somewhere that above Greenfield to East
Northfield the signals have been removed and the line is all 10 MPH on
this stretch. The three major cities between Springfield and Brattleboro
all deserve service but unless Massachusetts comes up with the money to
fix this line up, I do not see it happening.
Noel Weaver

Regarding the Montrealer: I rode it a number of times both on the original route and on the CV north from New London. I'm told the CV track (which was mostly 40 MPH in those days) has deteriorated and is mostly 25 now, which would probably preclude that routing.

I can confirm that Guilford track from Springfield to East Northfield is all 10 MPH; when Guilford re-routed Canada freight via the D&H, the entire Conn River line was downgraded. There is only a little through freight left, and Guilford has sold the White River Jct. -- Wells River line to the State of Vermont (which has also bought the CP to Newport).

I'd like to see the return of a reasonably scheduled overnight train to Montreal. I had a good deal of business with CN in the 1990s, but the Montrealer's 11:15 arrival time in Montreal pretty well precluded its use for business travel -- I could get there much earlier on a morning flight from PHL.

NellieBly wrote:Regarding the Montrealer: I rode it a number of times both on the original route and on the CV north from New London. I'm told the CV track (which was mostly 40 MPH in those days) has deteriorated and is mostly 25 now, which would probably preclude that routing.

I can confirm that Guilford track from Springfield to East Northfield is all 10 MPH; when Guilford re-routed Canada freight via the D&H, the entire Conn River line was downgraded. There is only a little through freight left, and Guilford has sold the White River Jct. -- Wells River line to the State of Vermont (which has also bought the CP to Newport).

I'd like to see the return of a reasonably scheduled overnight train to Montreal. I had a good deal of business with CN in the 1990s, but the Montrealer's 11:15 arrival time in Montreal pretty well precluded its use for business travel -- I could get there much earlier on a morning flight from PHL.

Much work was done on the old "Southern Division" of the CV in the 1980's when the decision to run the Montrealer that way. The fact that it
is now mostly 25 MPH does not necessarily mean that fixing it back up to
a decent passenger train speed is not nearly as costly as it may seem.
If it is in shape for 25, it probably needs a few ties here and there to bring
it back to 50 or a little better for passenger use. There was even some
welded rail on that line.
Even after the major upgrading for the passenger train at the time, this
particular portion of the CV especially south of Palmer had/has a lot of
restrictions due to curves etc.
Going through Springfield, time is lost in reverse moves, changing ends,
brake tests etc and they would not have to do that by a straight away run
via New London.
Unfortunately, with a train like the old Montrealer, it was not possible to
arrive at a decent time after an overnight run and for people headed to
Vermont, a little bit longer run at night did not make a whole lot of
difference and might even be better arriving at a bit latter hour in the AM.
Noel Weaver