Trains to Pottsville and Allentown, c. 1979 (John Pawson)

To get a better idea of what train service was like in 1979 before the Commonwealth of PA and SEPTA killed the diesel service, here is a detailed write-up from John Pawson's Delaware Valley Rails:




Those diesels were not nixed due to a lack of riders, that is for sure.

I rode these from time to time as a child; in fact, my first ever train ride was a trip to Reading with my grandmother in the summer of '75 on a set of these RDC's. Don't remember everything with crystal-clear clarity, but I do recall the one constant being the rough ride, akin to that of a cork in high seas. The cars were also seldom more than half-full.

I was 7 when the trains to Bethlehem were cut, I never got to ride it. And the Allentown extension was a failure because it had so low ridership. And a bus shelter and crumbling concrete platform for a station off of Union St. I live just west of Allentown. I wonder why the Lehigh Valley area got screwed, why the railroads at the time namely Conrail chose to end the service. Now we have way more people in the LV since 1981 and no train service. Officials think the buses are enough.

rwk's last sentence answers his own question. The Lehigh Valley is outside SEPTA's service area and was not included in Amtrak; therefore local county or municipal authorities would have to underwrite the operation, and none were willing to do so.

FWIW Berks County has increased 100k since 1980 (I was attending then-Kutztown State then). Berks is also outside SEPTA territory and Barta/Berks County/the municipalities were unwilling to underwrite continued service there, too.

One weekend I went home to Boothwyn on a bus/train/train ride - Trailways from the KSC campus to the Reading intercity bus terminal at 3rd and Penn, then lugged a full laundry bag and two suitcases over to Franklin St. to catch the train to Reading Terminal, then lugging those same three pieces to Suburban Station (the tunnel was under construction at the time), then the next train to Media, from which my dad gave me a lift home to my mom and my apartment (my parents were divorced). My only time taking a train into or out of Reading Terminal.

motor

Pacobell73 wrote: Those diesels were not nixed due to a lack of riders, that is for sure.

Quite the opposite.

Though it wasn't the sole cause, it contributed to the main cause: low ridership = poor farebox recovery = need for increasing operating subsidy = the service being an obvious downsizing target in an era of increased federal reluctance to subsidize public transportation. As the table on page 44 of the very same book demonstrates, the values in the Average Number of Weekday Rides column on that page harms your claim. I noticed that a scan of that page is conspicuously absent from your original post.

At the time Mr. Pawson wrote his book, SEPTA intercity diesel ridership was generally poor. This was greatly influenced by the low number of trains to choose from on each intercity route, the chilling effect that had upon long-term ridership trends & the weaknesses of traditional "radial" passenger service, and the very substantial difficulty in making any significant expansion of the diesel fleet. It's hard to ride a train that's not in the timetable, especially if the ones that actually are in the timetable are not useful for your own origin/destination time needs. I want to emphasize that I am not claiming that this is the only reason the intercity trains were discontinued; far from it. However, the myth of SEPTA diesel intercity trains all being well-patronized - yet still being cruelly cut from service, as if by sadistic comic-book villains - is not borne out by the facts, and such folklore or wishful thinking only clouds the real issues.

In 1978, the three diesel intercity services between Reading Terminal and Newark NJ, Bethlehem-Allentown and Reading-Pottsville carried an average of only 3,000 weekday riders.

Consider also the number of daily weekday trains in both directions on the three diesel intercity routes. Again in 1978, all of them combined add up to only 36 trains per day in both directions.

Compare that to the contemporaneous stats for the electric ex-RDG Conshohocken-Norristown route, whose single line of service was then hosting 55 weekday trains in both directions, and collectively carrying an average of 4,200 weekday passengers. The differences here are stark. One of the very weakest SEPTA electric railroad commuter lines was able to beat the combined ridership of SEPTA's entire intercity Budd Rail Diesel Car fleet (and the lone locomotive-hauled diesel push-pull train), and by a wide margin.

In contrast to the entire electrified Railroad Division as it was in 1978, the intercity trains were barely noticeable; let alone significant. I know that's hard for passenger-train analysts and any variety of railfans or foamers to hear, but in this case the truth is not pretty.

My personal opinions aside, it's rather amazing that the diesel intercity trains out of Reading Terminal were not permanently discontinued well before the time they historically met the axe.

I am lucky enough to have the John Pawson book as well. I treated myself to it as a birthday present.

However, if we rely on the stats in Wikipedia, we clearly see that ridership on the diesel portion west of Norristown was very low in the early 80's (in this case very low means 75 boardings a day or less at some stations). Of course, Phoenixville was not at all "hot" in 1980 and neither it, nor Royersford, nor Pottstown, were surrounded by miles and miles of sprawl as they are now. There is a ridership base that very much exists now (but didn't in 1980).

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motor wrote: Berks is also outside SEPTA territory and Barta/Berks County/the municipalities were unwilling to underwrite continued service there, too.

Almost forgot... neither was Schuylkill County, of which Pottsville is the county seat.

motor

The fact that some of these routes are popping daisies today is a testament to their perceived then-present and future usefulness. While those suburbs are booming today, the trends now favor living in the city close to the jobs that don't require an hour trainride plus walk/drive to the station. It's unlikely Philly will ever see these lines come back, or restoration of other dormant routes.

Dear bikentransit:

The Bethlehem Branch goes to Bethlehem and Allentown. The Reading line goes to Reading. Three cities, not suburbs. Kind of like the Harrisburg line.

Right. And there are no suburbs in between there anywhere. Thanks for pointing that out, I'm sure that was helpful for the readership here.

^Your argument, I think, was that the former rail lines had little utility since residential demand was growing in cities, not exurbs. So, it is indeed important to point out that these lines connect cities, not just facilitate suburban commuting. They would, if extant, support precisely the urban revitalization you are referring to.

If there was such a demand to get from Philly to Allentown (or Bethlehem) by rail, the counties would have made it a priority instead of building the intercounty-Reading Railroad-memorial trail.
In fact, there isn't a market for it. I live close to Philly, and have occasionally gone to Allentown. I can't think of what a pain in the neck it would be to try and do that by train. It would mean driving to a SEPTA station that hopefully connects to the service, or riding into town, then riding all the way out to Allentown. If my destination isn't within walking distance of the fantasy train station, then it means taking my chances with LANTA or paying through the nose for a taxi cab. Or I can just hop in my car, one seat ride, a lot faster, and a Wawa stop along the way.

bikentransit wrote:If there was such a demand to get from Philly to Allentown (or Bethlehem) by rail, the counties would have made it a priority instead of building the intercounty-Reading Railroad-memorial trail.
In fact, there isn't a market for it. I live close to Philly, and have occasionally gone to Allentown. I can't think of what a pain in the neck it would be to try and do that by train. It would mean driving to a SEPTA station that hopefully connects to the service, or riding into town, then riding all the way out to Allentown. If my destination isn't within walking distance of the fantasy train station, then it means taking my chances with LANTA or paying through the nose for a taxi cab. Or I can just hop in my car, one seat ride, a lot faster, and a Wawa stop along the way.

You've basically argued for the abolishment of all intercity rail service and that any corridor with a trail on it would not have any appreciable ridership were it served by passenger rail. The fact of the matter is that while the best you may hope for is that intercity rail service consists of a fraction of total trips to/from those cities and that door to door trips via auto will remain dominant, this alone does not disprove a need or market for passenger rail. Success of Amtrak intercity services in moderate metro areas of the coasts demonstrate this. Recreational special interest fanaticism is largely the reason for the recent rapid expansion of trails. It is much safer and more self-serving politically to cater to a relatively small, vocal group of weekend activist goofballs who could see their trail project completed before your re-election than it is to properly preserve a crucially important rail right-of-way for a much larger group who may not see results for 20 years.

That said, while there IS a market for it and they are ideally worthwhile, I do believe there are higher priorities in the region than reactivation all the way to Bethlehem or Reading, but I'll be damned if there isn't fair to great demand for commuter service as far as at least Perkasie and Pottstown and that they aren't worthwhile projects.

bikentransit wrote:If there was such a demand to get from Philly to Allentown (or Bethlehem) by rail, the counties would have made it a priority instead of building the intercounty-Reading Railroad-memorial trail.
In fact, there isn't a market for it. I live close to Philly, and have occasionally gone to Allentown. I can't think of what a pain in the neck it would be to try and do that by train. It would mean driving to a SEPTA station that hopefully connects to the service, or riding into town, then riding all the way out to Allentown. If my destination isn't within walking distance of the fantasy train station, then it means taking my chances with LANTA or paying through the nose for a taxi cab. Or I can just hop in my car, one seat ride, a lot faster, and a Wawa stop along the way.

your handle says bristol which is not philadelphia. A train that runs up the reading main from Philadelphia through the northern suburbs will indeed serve a lot of people. thanks to the arbitrary rules the state set when they formed SEPTA the lehigh valley was excluded from SEPTA and left out in the cold when thornburgh disbanded the rail authority. the claim that there is no market is complete nonsense.