Train to Boise, ID to Salt Lake City, UT (Partial Pioneer)

Are there plans to bring Amtrak service back to Boise? Someone from that area called me up just a few minutes ago to tell me that Amtrak is going to serve Boise again.

A nice Christmas wish perhaps at this time.

A provision of S.294, the Amtrak reauthorization bill in the latest Senate, provided for a study to restore service on the "Pioneer Route" between Seattle and Salt Lake City.

Recently, Amtrak President Alex Kummant made a gentlemen's agreement with Idaho's Congressional delegation that he would make sure to push forward discussion to restore the Pioneer train that was discontinued in 1997.

Will it happen? Who knows... Keep in mind that the route is a Union Pacific route, and that Amtrak will have to pay for trackwork in Portland as the old connection between the Graham Line and the Steel Bridge (necessary for trains to access Union Station) was removed in a previous track project. New platforms in Hood River and The Dalles will need to be constructed, along with a new station at Hinkle/Hermiston (the AmShack is still there but in severe disrepair). And there is the question as to whether BNSF will allow a SIXTH Amtrak train between Portland and Seattle.

It would be cool to have the Pioneer back. Didnt it run all the way to Salt Lake and connect to the California zephyr?

as far as BNSF allowing a sixth SEA-PDX train, I dont necessarily think it would be necessary in the first place. There are already 4 cascades runs, and from what I read in WSDOT's long-term plan, they wanted 20, yes twenty, SEA-PDX cascades runs. Then there are all those line improvements that WSDOT is helping out with.

All in all, it makes sense, because Boise is a sizable city, and it would make for a better connected PNW.

Here's a subject that hits very close to home... Literally...

I live about 200 feet from the historic Boise Depot. It would be awesome to have Amtrak service restored between the Pacific Northwest and Salt Lake City.

I've heard the rumblings of the restored service and I was excited to hear about it, but I am not holding my breath. It seems like there are too many hoops that state agencies and Amtrak would have to jump through to bring back a route that I honestly believe wouldn't be very profitable.

The railfan/rail photographer side of me really hopes that the route is restored. It would be a great way to travel to PDX/SEA or to SLC without the bother of airports. I've lived here in Boise for 6 years and I've always wished that I could just walk down the street and jump on an Amtrak train and have the ability to connect to the entire Amtrak system without flying to Seattle or Portland or SLC.

Beyond a gentlemen's agreement to do a study, everything else right now is rumor.

As an engineer in SLC for Amtrak I can say that this is a rumor. I'll let you know once the bids are put out for the new run, if ever.

Agree with John Perkowski. It would be nice to see the route put in place, but I don't know what equipment Amtrak would use to operate the service. I think you'd also have to do a "cross the platform" change at Denver or Salt Lake City, as there's just not enough current equipment in house to tack it onto the CA Zephyr as was done previously. There'd have to be some mid-point transfer along the route of the CA Zephyr / Pioneer.

Mr jp1822,

I think equipment is the least of the problems. I've not seen an accounting of what is simply in storage at Beech Grove for some time.

I remember Mom telling me, on a trip she took on the "City of Everywhere" in the summer of 1970, that she saw the UP dome diner fleet (and I think some of the dome lounge fleet) on sidings at Victorville, CA, in dry climate storage.

Sadly, Amtrak doesn't have a dry climate storage site that I'm aware of.

My guess is that for this train to happen, it will HAVE to be a 403(b)/state subsidized train, subsidized by Oregon and/or Idaho.

The train technically could originate/terminate in Portland but if any equipment needed servicing it would have to head to Seattle, and the equipment could ONLY deadhead on the Coast Starlight or as a hospital train. (I don't think there is precedent for a deadhead car to travel behind the rear cabbage/locomotive.)

Oregon doesn't have the money - it barely has the willpower to come up with $10M/biennium for ONE daily RT between Portland and Eugene. (If anyone wants to support it, buy a personalized license plate from Oregon DMV!) I am not sure Idaho really has the money, either.

Equipment - Oregon and/or Idaho would have to buy it, or get some Amfleets out of storage. However this is a marked difference between the old Pioneer operation in which the Pioneer, California Zephyr and Desert Wind combined their consists at Salt Lake City (later in Denver when the Pioneer was extended across the UP mainline through Wyoming; however the CZ and Desert Wind continued to join together at SLC). Further, a "cross platform" transfer at SLC would have one little problem:

Eastbound: arrives SLC 4:15 AM/departs 4:45 AM
Westbound: arrives SLC 11:05 PM/departs 11:35 PM.

Could the Pioneer be timed to be a daylight train between Salt Lake City and at least Portland? They could use Amfleets that are in storage if needed. And I agree Idaho and Oregon would have to pony up the money for such a route.

But if the Pioneer was to operate with sleepers and a through connection with the CA Zephyr (either originating/terminating at Denver or Salt Lake City), this would create potential equipment issues.

Course there are Talgos out there that have a sleeper configuration - hah! They just couldn't be integrated with the CA Zephyr Superliners.

Whats interesting is that I know several people in Boise who really aren't fond of flying out of their airport...so it makes me wonder if now more than in the past is the best time for the Pioneer to come back.

AgentSkelly wrote:Whats interesting is that I know several people in Boise who really aren't fond of flying out of their airport...so it makes me wonder if now more than in the past is the best time for the Pioneer to come back.

However, 1.7 million passengers did use the airport last year http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/ ... ements.pdf

Just for kicks, you should go to one of the air fare finders and put in some requests for say Boise-Portland, and look at the fare and the travel time. That is what Amtrak would be competing against.

My 1969 official guide shows the City of Portland leaving Boise at 12:39 am and arriving Portland at 9:15 am, traveling 480 miles and we all know that Amtrak LD rarely runs as fast as 1969 speeds. If we peak at the air situation were are looking at 1.5 hours air time plus say 2 hours airport time making at most 3.5 hours. Amtrak will take at least 9 hours, probably 10. Next look at fares, if Amtrak gets 18 cents a passenger mile for coach, which seems reasonable, that takes Amtrak to near $100. Now look at the airfare. nuff said.

According to this report, Boise generated about 2000 daily airline passengers during the first quarter of 2007 to cities that would be either on the Pioneer route or an easy connection from the Pioneer. So if Amtrak could capture a market share equal to 5% of the airline's haul, they'd be serving about 100 daily passengers at Boise.

That is less than 2 Horizon carloads, Mr Vincent, or, more precisely, it's just over two Hounds...

Can Amtrak cover "above the rail" costs on 100 pax per day?