The Springfield Shuttle - What's the Deal?

BandA wrote:Point of note, the Midland route is not the same as the Inland route.viewtopic.php?f=126&t=162627&start=0

Thank you for this, maybe I had a temporary "brain lapse". The Midland Route is long gone and never to return.
Noel Weaver

For both the Shoreline and Inland Routes, the north-south leg is a raceway, and the east-west leg is curvy. Even if the Inland Route is 4 miles longer and 15 minutes slower, it’s hugely important to people in Hartford, Springfield and Worcester who currently lack service to Boston. Worcester has no service to New York either.

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Yes between New Haven and Westerly, there are a lot of curves but there are some stretches of straightaway separated by curves. For example, in Guilford, when you look east from the SLE platform, it is quite straight. Between Old Saybrook and New London, you have several curves.

On the SPG Line, yes, there aren't many curves. Just north of Mill River Interlocking, the SPG Line is very straight for quite a few miles and the trains really move through there. There are some slight curves. The major curves are in Hartford and then on both sides of the Connecticut River crossing and of course, just west of SPG Station. Another spot where there is continuous miles of straight track is between Berlin and the curve just west of Hartford station.

One other big curve is south of Springfield station at the Springfield-Longmeadow city line where the track curves along with the river. I-91 has a big curve in the same spot. This curve has a bigger impact on the northbound trains which have to slow quite a bit.

Jehochman wrote:Even if the Inland Route is 4 miles longer and 15 minutes slower, it’s hugely important to people in Hartford, Springfield and Worcester who currently lack service to Boston.

Worcester is well supplied with train service to Boston, with twenty MBTA commuter trains on weekdays.

Hartford-Springfield has plenty of trains too, but none of them go to Boston. Worcester has the same issue with getting to New York. The lack of this train hinders economic development in all three cities. As a business traveler I’m not very fond of MBTA or MTA trains for longer segments like New Haven to NYC or Worcester to Boston. They aren’t set up for luggage, no cafe, and there are constant stops and announcements. But you are right that Worcester has service to Boston. I wasn’t thinking of MBTA.

Jehochman wrote:Hartford-Springfield has plenty of trains too, but none of them go to Boston. Worcester has the same issue with getting to New York. The lack of this train hinders economic development in all three cities. As a business traveler I’m not very fond of MBTA or MTA trains for longer segments like New Haven to NYC or Worcester to Boston. They aren’t set up for luggage, no cafe, and there are constant stops and announcements. But you are right that Worcester has service to Boston. I wasn’t thinking of MBTA.

This is what I was getting at earlier (cant figure out how to quote posts on other pages?). Of course I can take the commuter in from Worcester to take a train to NYC, but I'm literally backtracking to pay more to travel longer! Instead of the hour ride to BOS to pay $200 to get to NYC I can drive the same hour to Hartford or SPG and get a train for half the price. I'm a passionate fan of Worcester but I need to travel to NYC often enough that I'm being enticed to Hartford or SPG or Providence.

State's got plenty of money to throw at our out-of-the-way airport, but we ask to fix the leaky roof at Union Station and there's no will.

I do lots of work in Amherst, and i I could jump a train, read papers and work on my computer for an hour, and have a local colleague grab me in springfield (or take a commuter up to NOHO if they ever get that going) I would be there a few times a week instead of once every few weeks.

Lentinula wrote: Instead of the hour ride to BOS to pay $200 to get to NYC I can drive the same hour to Hartford or SPG and get a train for half the price.

Just for the record, on the subject of price you appear to be comparing the Acela 'flexible" walkup fare between Boston and New York (typically $211) to "Regional" service fares out of Hartford or Springfield. A person can ride Amtrak from Boston to New York for less than half that amount by choosing other fare/equipment options. That's what I do.

State's got plenty of money to throw at our out-of-the-way airport, but we ask to fix the leaky roof at Union Station and there's no will.

Our great and wise legislators love to toss money at their pet projects and send just enough money out to that wilderness west of Worcester to insure that their colleagues get re-elected. That's not fair but it's been the case in this state approximately forever.

The other thing that is going to really lift Shuttle service is the upcoming reconstruction of the I-84 viaduct through downtown Hartford (which will clog I-84 directly with diversions and clog I-91 indirectly with refugees) that puts most of Hartford, Windsor/Airport, and Springfield where the train will win vs highway in a lot more city pairs.

As for closing the WOR-SPG gap by extending Boston Commuter Trains (to enable transfers at Springfield), there is not enough demand to justify Commuter service. There are buses though.

Somewhere here we have a Springfield improvements thread. But since this thread is more of a "why, what if and why not" thread, let's let it stand alone, and leave the other for actual plans.

There was at one time I believe, and Mr. Weaver can clarify and correct, also a shuttle between Worcester and New London. That's P&W I believe (G&W). If a service to connect Worcester (at least to the NEC) is so important, or an inland route, and CSX is such a pain in the a$$, this would be a good route that wouldn't need to be rebuilt (although it would need PTC). It may not be as useful as a route via Springfield, but it would help the interior.

There's also a short line, also belonging to Genesee and Wyoming, That runs on the other side of the river but I don't think that's to Worcester. At one time, that was the route of the Montrealer (now the Vermonter, on the Springfield line).

[quote="lordsigma12345"]

In my opinion the joint ticketing reciprocity agreement with Amtrak is going to be the make or break for the Hartford line. I don't think having just the 8 proposed round trips for commuters is enough to attract a decent ridership. When you add in all those Amtrak trains to the schedule, it looks like a pretty decent commuter service.[/quote]

As one who worked on the Hartford Line for over 30 years, I'd say the above statement is 100% true.
Hopefully Amtrak will agree to it. Had they been awarded the Hartford Line operating contract I think it would have been quite likely.
Now that they haven't I am not all that sure.

Jeff Smith wrote:There was at one time I believe, and Mr. Weaver can clarify and correct, also a shuttle between Worcester and New London.

That was a New Haven Railroad operation with two RDC round trips per day connecting with New York trains at New London. A single Budd was normally sufficient to accommodate the business. It was inherited by Penn Central in 1969 and discontinued as of Amtrak Day, 5/1/71.

There's also a short line, also belonging to Genesee and Wyoming, That runs on the other side of the river but I don't think that's to Worcester.

That's the G&W's New England Central, formerly the Central Vermont Railway, and you're right, it doesn't go to Worcester.

As suspected the Springfield Shuttles and Northeast Regional through trains operating on the New Haven-Springfield line (Regionals 141/143/146/147/136) will serve as half of the CTrail Hartford Line commuter service. Amtrak will accept Hartford Line commuter fare cards on all these trains. The Vermonter is excluded from this program and will continue to only accept Amtrak tickets. It is not yet known if all the Amtrak schedule changes are occurring on the same day as the launch of the CTrail operated trains, but the Amtrak trains will begin accepting the Hartford Line tickets right away.