The future of the SEPTA fleet

zebrasepta wrote:

MACTRAXX wrote:

zebrasepta wrote: AEM-7's and ALP-44 aren't in service on the Lansdale/Doylestown line at all (NIMBYs...) and they forgot about the Media/Elwyn and West Trenton lines using the engines

ZS:

There is more then just NIMBY opposition to using the AEM7s and ALP44 on the Lansdale-Doylestown Line...

From what I recall each time they have tried using a push-pull train on a peak hour express such as the North
Penn Limited they had problems keeping the schedule meaning the train ran late more then it was on time and
there is the problem with the small capacity substation on the Doylestown Branch as well along with the NIMBY
complaints about the motor noise from these locomotives when they are stored in the Doylestown yard...

I also remember that the RDG side power supply limits the use of push-pull trains to only two and they have
both been assigned to two West Trenton peak hour expresses and at one point one of these trainsets was
assigned to a Warminster peak round trip...With these new locomotives if SEPTA plans on adding more RDG
side push pull trains the power supply needs to be beefed up to accomodate them and if not most of the new
multilevel trains will be going on the Paoli-Thorndale, Wilmington-Newark and Trenton Lines...

This new equipment will be a significant improvement for the Regional Rail system and hopefully SEPTA does
operate more push-pull trains on more lines that can use them...

MACTRAXX

Oh yeah, I forgot about the power constraints on the RDG side

Does anyone know if the new Jenkintown sub will add any capacity or is it simply for reliability? I assume some of the constraints on the Reading side would also have to do with the frequency converters.

So it looks like SEPTA is expanding their p/p fleet, which will probably be for the future order of double decker cars.

Is this going to result in more service, or is it likely that the new engines/cars will be used to displace the Silverliner IV cars? Will the new double decker cars/engines be hanger queens like the current sets or be used more frequently outside of peak travel times?

bikentransit wrote:So it looks like SEPTA is expanding their p/p fleet, which will probably be for the future order of double decker cars.

Is this going to result in more service, or is it likely that the new engines/cars will be used to displace the Silverliner IV cars? Will the new double decker cars/engines be hanger queens like the current sets or be used more frequently outside of peak travel times?

That's not nearly enough of an order to displace the SL4's. Probably just means expansion of the peak-hour push-pulls to some degree of beneficial usefulness, and fleet padding because there's going to be at least a little bit of attrition in the SL4 fleet with dead units before they get around to that huge replacement order. What they've been running with for push-pulls before now is pathetically thin margins compared to what they ideally should be.

Too early to tell if the ACS-64 is going to stay reliable through the years, but the MLV coaches have a pretty solid rep for reliability after 9 years of service. As long as SEPTA doesn't deviate from the NJT/AMT/MARC bread-and-butter to pointless overcustomization that Bombardier product is pretty hard to screw up. It would constitute some growth in brainpower at the top to have learned from the Rotem debacle by buying proven stuff that's in wide use with other, much bigger railroads. And you can't get much bigger than Amtrak and NJT, so it's about the best you could ever hope for on risk management.


For the SL4's they'd simply be wise to follow what NJT's pursuing for an "MLV EMU". Buy it after NJT gets to be the guinea pig, and don't over-customize, and that too will hedge the risk smartly against another "Roteming".

The toasters do not owe anyone anything and need to be retired. I have some concerns about the ACS-64.
The software on the Amtrak motors is set up for intercity operation. It will need to be tweaked for commuter/local service. The two services are very different.
If you read the threads on the Amtrak forum there are issues that folks are not willing to talk openly about. That is not a good sign.

Might be better off with some ALP-46A's that are already doing the job. A shame they are not in production.

Some kind of warranty or other guarantee of fitness for specified service is written into the contract isn't it? Or not?

I don't know yet if this link was posted here, but it does contain links to several specification documents that are part of the RFP package for the new locomotives:
http://www.septa.org/business/bid/100k/ ... 7-JFK.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was first posted here, but without the addendums ... New Siemens Locomotives - Qty 13+5

So what exactly are the tweaks needed to make the ACS-64 suitable for commuter vs intercity service?

MattW wrote:So what exactly are the tweaks needed to make the ACS-64 suitable for commuter vs intercity service?

Gear ratios for starters. The Amtrak ACS64 is geared towards high speed service while commuter needs a gear ratio towards a top speed of 90 mph.

BuddCar711 wrote:

MattW wrote:So what exactly are the tweaks needed to make the ACS-64 suitable for commuter vs intercity service?

Gear ratios for starters. The Amtrak ACS64 is geared towards high speed service while commuter needs a gear ratio towards a top speed of 90 mph.

If SEPTA is planning a service expansion, then why wouldn't they keep a 125mph gearing for the longer express runs on the Paoli, Wilmington, and Trenton lines? I would think Amtrak would prefer something that can flow with traffic better on the corridor and Keystone line.

Maybe they're not planning expansion. If they can stuff more people into double decker cars, they could cut runs and still move the same number of people. Economical on their part.

Even without an expansion it would still make sense for runs such as the great valley flyer.

MACTRAXX wrote:

zebrasepta wrote: AEM-7's and ALP-44 aren't in service on the Lansdale/Doylestown line at all (NIMBYs...) and they forgot about the Media/Elwyn and West Trenton lines using the engines

ZS:

There is more then just NIMBY opposition to using the AEM7s and ALP44 on the Lansdale-Doylestown Line...

From what I recall each time they have tried using a push-pull train on a peak hour express such as the North
Penn Limited they had problems keeping the schedule meaning the train ran late more then it was on time and
there is the problem with the small capacity substation on the Doylestown Branch as well along with the NIMBY
complaints about the motor noise from these locomotives when they are stored in the Doylestown yard...

I also remember that the RDG side power supply limits the use of push-pull trains to only two and they have
both been assigned to two West Trenton peak hour expresses and at one point one of these trainsets was
assigned to a Warminster peak round trip...With these new locomotives if SEPTA plans on adding more RDG
side push pull trains the power supply needs to be beefed up to accomodate them and if not most of the new
multilevel trains will be going on the Paoli-Thorndale, Wilmington-Newark and Trenton Lines...

This new equipment will be a significant improvement for the Regional Rail system and hopefully SEPTA does
operate more push-pull trains on more lines that can use them...

MACTRAXX

They do plan to replace all of the RDG era substations and what have you, so that won't be an issue for much longer...

TrainPhotos wrote:

MACTRAXX wrote:

zebrasepta wrote: AEM-7's and ALP-44 aren't in service on the Lansdale/Doylestown line at all (NIMBYs...) and they forgot about the Media/Elwyn and West Trenton lines using the engines

ZS:

There is more then just NIMBY opposition to using the AEM7s and ALP44 on the Lansdale-Doylestown Line...

From what I recall each time they have tried using a push-pull train on a peak hour express such as the North
Penn Limited they had problems keeping the schedule meaning the train ran late more then it was on time and
there is the problem with the small capacity substation on the Doylestown Branch as well along with the NIMBY
complaints about the motor noise from these locomotives when they are stored in the Doylestown yard...

I also remember that the RDG side power supply limits the use of push-pull trains to only two and they have
both been assigned to two West Trenton peak hour expresses and at one point one of these trainsets was
assigned to a Warminster peak round trip...With these new locomotives if SEPTA plans on adding more RDG
side push pull trains the power supply needs to be beefed up to accomodate them and if not most of the new
multilevel trains will be going on the Paoli-Thorndale, Wilmington-Newark and Trenton Lines...

This new equipment will be a significant improvement for the Regional Rail system and hopefully SEPTA does
operate more push-pull trains on more lines that can use them...

MACTRAXX

They do plan to replace all of the RDG era substations and what have you, so that won't be an issue for much longer...

You can look at the substations they're working on here:
http://septa.org/rebuilding/substation/overview.html

Official award notice from the SEPTA board:
http://www.septa.org/about/board/pdf/ag ... 5-2015.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;