Stormy Weather

The lack of communication in the terminal itself was frustrating. At one point the stationmasters pretty much said not to ask them any more questions, that they will announce when a train is ready to depart. I took that to mean that they were as in the dark as everybody else, and were getting frustrated by repeated questions. Can't blame 'em.

On the radio traffic/transit reports they said 20 minute delays out of Hoboken. That info comes straight from the railroad, and they had to have known that at best the trains were 90 minutes behind, and that at several points nothing was moving and they did not know when anything would resume.

Somebody above mentioned that the conductors should see things from the riders' viewpoint. Perhaps a good point, but I think some of the supervisors should be reminded from time to time what it is like to be a conductor or station master and be out on the front lines with the customers and have little or know accurate information to pass on to those customers.

Overall, I realize weather conditions can't be helped (whether or not the railroad is prepared is another debate) but I think NJT management could have done a much better job keeping passengers informed this week rather than circling the wagons.

Jtgshu wrote:There was a power failure and flooding problems in the Newark/Elizabeth area last night (I do believe that was the North Ave NEC underpass at N. Elizabeth with the Jeep floating on the news last night) and Amtrak was having signal/control problems in this area, especially Elmora interlocking, but Union and Dock were having some troubles too, but not as bad as at Elmora, from what I understand

3266, the 5:55 departure from Newark Penn station en route to New York, did not arrive in Newark Penn until 6:15 or therabouts. When we finally left, we were moving, but we only arrived at SEC at about 6:25 or so, which is pretty late by that time. There was NOTHING coming up the NEC for a long time, 'cept a Raritan train... I was kinda concerned.

What actually happened is the CIL at West End (the small brown metal shed with the West End sign it) was hit by lightning. The CIL contains all of the control equipment for the interlocking. When it was fried, all control over West End interlocking, and the associated switches and signals was lost. All switches had to be thrown by hand, and blocked with a wooden wedge so they would not move under a train. This is very time consuming, espcially with double slip switches. Once the route for a train was properly lined, they would need to recieve permission to pass a signal displaying stop. Depending on the route of the train through West End, a train would have to stop and be talked by either two or three signals, once properly lined.

^With the NJT, you have the good, the bad, and the ugly. I find though that there are more good than bad. Knowing Jt and riding on a number of his trains, I can say personally he is a great conductor and runs a tight ship and is great with the passengers. There are also many others out there who are too. I know if I were a conductor, I would do just that. You just have to deal with the conductor that you have and do whatever they say. Some lines have more good than bad (like the M&E) while some seem to have some more bad than good (like the RVL). This is not to say there are bad conductors on the RVL. I have come across quite a few good ones too. There are just a bit too many snobs and rude people on that line for me though.

Let's not be too quick to condemn NJT for ALL the problems caused by the weather. No matter how we feel about ourselves, we are only human and the weather will mess with us (and even shut us down) no matter how superior we feel we are to Nature.

To answer a question I saw several times through this thread. Having worked on the Mainline dispatch desk through most of 2002, 'losing the code' means that the dispatchers have lost the ability to set signals and routes through the interlockings. There is nothing the dispatchers can do to expedite trains except to wait for the signal maintainers, the power company, or both, to restore service. Until that happens, trains move very slowly, if they move at all.

Now, as to the conduct of NJT's train crews.....that is another story. There are some crews who are very customer-friendly and others who won't give you the time of day, and that's under normal conditions. Unfortunately those employees only seem to get worse when conditions get worse.

Until we can control weather, days like that are going to happen.

Joe P :D
Long Live The EL

Yes, but those crew people are getting PAID to be as courteous and professional as possible.
While many of them are very friendly, professional and courteous, there are a few that are horrible with their terrible attitudes and should not be in that profession because clearly they dislike their jobs.

CNJFAN wrote:Yes, but those crew people are getting PAID to be as courteous and professional as possible.
While many of them are very friendly, professional and courteous, there are a few that are horrible with their terrible attitudes and should not be in that profession because clearly they dislike their jobs.

Well, we are paid to get the train from point A to point B, safely, ontime and in one piece, and collect revenue for the company in the process, thats it. Customer Service representatives are paid to be courteous!!!

I had a well known cranky trainmen tell me once after I asked him somehtng about why he is so bitter at the world, and he said, "Im doing the Customer Service reps a favor" I said how so??? He said, "If they don't get any complaints, they don't have a job!!!! Im keeping them employed!!!!" I had to laugh

Not that I don't agree, there are some very unprofessional trainmen with terrible attitudes who really do hate their jobs, who I wish they would leave or retire, because that would move me up in senority!!! But you can't hold a trainmen to a higher standard then every other job or career in the world, because of a "romance" associated with the particular job. There are cranky adn bitter people who hate their jobs and work at the supermarket, on airplanes, in retail stores, in banks, etc, etc, etc, etc.

But a person can be a TERRIFIC conductor and railroader, but just not work well with people, as believe it or not, dealing with passengers adn having a happy face is only a very small part of the job. On the ohter hand, you can have a person that is terrific with people, but shouldn't work for the railroad, because they are so bad as a railroader, adn can get themselves or someone else, maybe even that passenger who they were just talking and laughing with, hurt or killed. Usually people who hate dealing with passengers and have the bad attitudes make their way into the yard adn extra service work when their senority allows.

Very rarely are things as rosey on the railroad as people think they are, railfans and non railfans alike........it is NOT an easy job at times, and really does take a toll on a person, mentally and physically.......and even though I have been employeed on the RR for a relatively short amount of time, I can easily see how people turn quite bitter about society and management and life in general. Maybe this is only the case in commuter, regional passegner rail, as opposed to say Amtrak with Long distance passegner rail, where the passengers are of a different mindset, going on a trip, or whatever, but I doubt it........

Amtrak has some crankiest people on those long distance train out there. Trust me I have gotten enough refunds from them because of just BAD SERVICE.

Since David Gunn tookover, they are doing much better, they have gotten friendly and somewhat helpful. I think David Gunn has done a wonderful job, but it seems that NJT has gotten bad in the case of customer service. I mean you get it good at Secaucus, but sometimes else where you don't get very good, like in Newark.

^Oh god, with Secaucus, you get too much help. You can't walk 5 feet sometimes without someone asking if you need help! I think they should take some of those folks and spread them around the sytem. And get rid of those damn faregates too while there at it. I think they put them up to keep railfans like me out! :D

To jtgshu,
Thanks for a more realistic point of view.
I base my statements only on my own experiences.

duey wrote:Is there some kind of rule among conductors that they just don't make annoucements?

According to the TRO-12(which is the book of guidelines for engineers and conductors) the rule for known delays conductors are supposed to say "We apologize for the delay. Unfortunately, our train is delayed due to a/an ____. As a result our train will be delayed approximately ____ minutes. Thank you for your patience."

Delays where cause is unknown
"We apologize for the delay. We are determining the cause of the extent of the delay and will keep you advised, as information becomes available. Thank you for your patienbce.

Yes, there are guidelines for how announcements are supposed to be made, and on the employee timetables, there are also like 10 different scenarios and their related announcements.

But let me ask you this.......if we are sitting somewhere for 20 to 30 minutes, do you want me to make the same announcement every 5 minutes? Once, for "fun" we did that, and after about 3 announcements, 99 percent of the train was ready to rip our heads off.

I always make announcements, and I guess im more of a talker than others, but as TR says, im not up htere singing "kumbiya", but I just get the necessary info out enough times so if you aren't listening, its YOUR fault you missed your stop or on the wrong train or whatever.....(unless the PA isn't working in that car, thats another story) but even on regular trains i get yelled at more for MAKING announcements by passengers than not making enough.

"Why are you making so many announcements - the lady just said that...why are you saying that again [because of a c3 in the consist]........ this PA is too loud, i can't sleep....I know were stopped, you don't have to keep telling us........what did you just say..i wasn't listening........there wasnt' always PA's, why do you use them so much now....."

But I do ride trains too, and I know some trainmen don't make any annoucements, most likely due to lazyness. Adn there is no reason for it.

I was on a train once that was held up and the guy was on the PA every few minutes. That got annoying after a while.

"Attention passengers, we are still held up by a stop signal blagh blagh blagh blagh." That was too much. Every 7 minutes is about right for me unless there is a "Breaking News."

And I also appreciate crewmen who keep it brief.

"Attention Passnegers, the next station stop will be Rahway- Rahway- Rahway- Change here at Rahway for service to Long Branch and Bay Head. Walk down the stairs of the platform, under the tunnel, up the stairs and you can catch your train there. Once again- This is Rahway. Rahway. This station stop is Rahway. This is the local train to New York. Rahway."

Then, we have our oh-so-friendly computerized announcer say- This station stop is-- Rahway. Then one time after all of this occured and we pulled into the station, there was a couple in front of me and the girl asked the guy "What station is this" and the guy said "Well, I can't be sure but I think this might be Rahway." I laughed so hard when I heard that.

.... Ahhh how can i resist...my favorite subject.... passenger announcements (did you know that this is off thread topic?)

I have to fault management on this one. Pre-COMET V's I would have easily focused on crews.... but for goodness sake...how can the crews announce with faulty PA's

Passengers aren't knit picking when they say PA's are too loud, have you ever noticed that the PA in the cab section of some C-5s duct tape is applied over the speaker; hmmmm perhaps they should duct tape the entire coach to be fair (as an accessory to the duct tape accents on the seats).

As for "customer service" not being part of a rail crew’s responsibility that is a bunch of slop.

"Customer Service" is not a separate product from NJT, apart from rail and bus service; the whole notion of "Customer Service" is to emphasize the point where transportation supply and transportation demand meet;

Where the fare payer and tax subsidizer consume the product of NJT. It is why the conductors are on the trains, operators at the controls, and why rolling stock is maintained.

Customers who are satisfied (or tricked into thinking they are satisfied) are customers who swallow the fare increase elixir with less fuss, give less lip to conductors, and support transit with their elected officials.

Carefully planned announcements on systems that work would do a world of good; effective troubleshooting and "after action" analysis for recurring problems with scheduling and equipment can minimize the incidents that necessitate announcements.

Again it is ALL about the passengers and properly managing them. To crew members who think that they don't need to worry about customer service, the next time you see a passenger counter one week and a short train shortly thereafter, you might want to reconsider your attitude.

As a rail fan who loves to see extensions of rail service, I know that meaningful and relatively successful expansion doesn't happen unless the transportation supplied can meet demand and affect the choice of the transportation consumer.

Most definately some PA's are too loud, some are too quiet, but a "normal" working PA in a say MU or C4 might be too loud to someone while too quiet to another. Never can everyone ever be happy. And some people just nitpick, its that easy

The duct tape on some of hte speakers, especially in the cab area's is for two things, the engineer doens't wanna hear the deafening announcements, and has enough to listen to like the radio and the deafening wheelslip and alerter and false handbrake sounds, but also to cut down on the feedback with that particular PA head there on the wall behind the engineer's seat and the one built into the radio controls. Also, sometimes the PA head in teh middle of the car in teh center vestibule is taped over for that same reason, to cut down on the feedback so the entire train doesn't go deaf from squeeling.

Again it is ALL about the passengers and properly managing them

You are absolutely right......the lives of sometimes over 1000 people hinge on decisions that are made by me, the conductor and other crew members of the train, including the engineer and rearbrakemen. And this is not a responsibility to be taken lightly, and isn't taken lightly. However, as I said earlier, what people see me doing (collecting tickets, answering questions, making annoucements) is only a very small part of the job that needs to be done by a good trainman, especially the Conductor. But my UTMOST responsibiltiy is to get you to where you are going and the train to its final destination safely. That is it, bottom line. The "customer service" in that is getting you home alive and uninjured

And sometimes the very people that we carry, yes, those whom allow me to have my job, get in the way of me doing my job. And at times, I have to be rude to them, because what I am doing or trying to do, listen to the radio or instructions, or PA's, get back to a car wehre there is a passenger problem, put my key in a panel to prevent the doors from opening up, because maybe the engineer pulled to long, or countless other things that can happen, is more important to me any question that this person may have at that point in time. After a while of being a trainman, you can guess, with about I would say 80 percent accuracy, the question that is going to be coming out of their mouth before they even open it up....its a remarkable skill, it really is. (that same question 99 percent of the time would be answered if that person was simply paying attention) And I can tell when a person has a legitimate problem or question most times, and when the person has a question that is simply not as important as the other task at hand at that moment. Is that customer service???.....im being very rude to that person or a group of people, but I am trained to make that differentiation between what my attention is going to be focused on.

Customer service IS important to the passengers, and a lack of it can get a trainman in trouble with management if a letter is written or a complaint made. However, there is a line that must not be crossed, where safety comes into play in any way, shape or form, where EVERYTHING else gets pushed away and the priorities are quickly reversed and Passenger XYZ with his 10th question of "is this station Elizabeth" gets quickly shut out by me.

I know I might sound like I am painting with a very wide brush here, and I know there are trainmen and others who work for NJT who should not be dealing with the public in any way, shape or form, and they don't have people skills AT ALL, and don't make announcements or do their job the best they can or whatever. But there are lots of other things that go on on the train that might lead to something happening or not happening that a non railroader wouldn't know of or understand, and isn't expected to know or understand.

I remember a time when my train nearly hit several trespassers, it was just me and the rear brakeman. I had to go out and investigate, and before I left the train, I made an announcement, something like this "Please stand by and bear with us, we have to go out and check something out" A fair and adequate announcement for the possible grizzly situation that I was about to possibly encounter. After wandering around for about 10 minutes looking for dead bodies, with my rear brake helpoing by trying to shine his tiny flashlight down from the train, and all frazzled and spooked, I get back on board. This guy starts flipping out on me as to "why no announcements were being made, why are we sitting here, I DEMAND to know!!!" "Okay FINE, you really wanna know?!?!?!?!?" I yelled at the guy, "I was out looking for the bloody carcasses of several teenage boys we might have hit, OKAY??????" He quietly sat down in his chair and didn't say another word. Could I have handled it better? Yes, probably much better, but you know what? Im human and this guy REALLLLLY pissed me off. Customer service? Not that point in time.