STEAMTOWN Discussion

(1)Let's stop the guesswork and innuendo, prior posters.

(2)Steamtown NPS employees are qualified to oversee the interior displays: PERIOD.

(3)The management/overhaul and--most important--the steam excursion program MUST be privatized in order to properly justify the $176+ million in taxpayer dollars already spent on Steamtown since 1986.

(4)Selection of such a private operator MUST be made by OPEN BIDDING, and restricted to fully-qualified bidders. Offhand, I can think of at least four (4) such prospective operators, and favoritism should NOT be given to any of them in particular.

(5)The <name redacted> management team has proven in spades that it is incompetent, lethargic and self-serving. As such, it must be replaced at the earliest possible moment.

(6)There have been plenty of functions at other National Parks delegated to private concessionaires/operators. There is no valid reason why this cannot also be done at Steamtown.

(7)The NPS will sit-up and take notice if Senators Arlen Specter and Robert Casey bother to bestir themselves to complain. The same applies to Rep. Paul Kanjorski.

(8)The SCRANTON TIMES-TRIBUNE will be running a major story on this issue on August 24 or 31 (last estimate I received).

DonPevsner wrote:(1)Evidently, H.F. Malone (the last poster) has never heard of investigative reporting, which I did for a number of years for Universal Press Syndicate and elsewhere.

Don, I think it's a reasonable question. Aside from your career in investigative reporting, have you ever been involved in the preservation field, directly or indirectly? I think it's reasonable to know your point of view, especially when you're describing the overhaul of a major insitution. Do you have management experience at another railroad museum, or some other experience that might apply? It's not an attack, just a question.

-otto-

DonPevsner wrote:(1)A basic requirement of ANY competent management--anywhere--is to NEGOTIATE the best deal for itself.

(2)This applies in particular to Steamtown management, which blithely gave the CPR a former CPR Hudson locomotive with no quid pro quo at all.

(3)That donation put Steamtown in a position to ask for:

(a)Regular, if infrequent, runs over the CP line between Scranton and Binghamton, in whole or in part, as a paying customer. This was done regularly when the D&H was the
designated operator.

(b)Running to the Bridge Festival on the day it is held, rather than one day earlier.

(c)Obtaining a waiver of any "CP rule" that forbids passengers from detraining. This sort of "rule" is made to be modified when desirable for both parties.

(4)Steamtown carries enough liability insurance to satisfy CPR's wildest demands.

(5)Instead, current Steamtown management is dealing with CPR on a "take it or leave it" basis. Further, CPR--like any railroad operating in the USA--needs US Government
support from time to time across a whole range of issues. Steamtown is a unit of the NPS: a Federal Government agency. This gives Steamtown management a good deal of
leverage with CPR management at the top. Instead, they are acting as if they are hat-in-hand beggars, come to see the King. Totally shameful.

(6)Most passengers could walk down the road to Nicholson from trackside. For the elderly and handicapped, vans could easily do the job. (I've driven up and back in a rental car numerous times.) Further, the train could have parked on a siding near a road, and bused everyone back to Nicholson. (Kingsley--a former regular excursion destination--would appear to fit this bill.) Again: a total lack of imagination and competence by Steamtown management.

Aside from the various errors of fact (Steamtown got a diesel in trade for a steam locomotive that needed over $2 million in repairs to make operable, the D&H was bankrupt and never the designated operator of anything, gross misunderstanding of Steamtown's insurance off of its property, etc.), I am once again amused at Mr. Pevsner's demands for Canadian Pacific. So now in addition to senior officials at the National Park Service, the Pocono Northeast Railroad Authority, the Delaware Lackawanna Railroad, and Norfolk Southern, Steamtown should now threaten Canadian Pacific with untold powers of the federal government! I guess the NPS needs a "Director of Idle Threats" - sure beats just keeping and <gasp> improving the basic park.

Here is your reply, Otto (and others):

(1)I personally saved the Ulster & Delaware Railroad (NYC Catskill Mountain Branch from 2/1/1932-on) line between Kingston and Bloomville, NY from demolition by Penn Central, in 1976-1978, and orchestrated its purchase by Ulster County and the A. Lindsay and Olive B. O'Connor Foundation (Delhi, NY) via The Catskill Center for Conservation and Development, Inc.

(2)I personally saved the former NYNH&H Poughkeepsie Bridge from demolition by CONRAIL in 1983-1984, as reported in Carleton Mabee's excellent book on "The Poughkeepsie Railroad Bridge."

(3)I do not have to have personally run a railroad museum to realize when things are rotten at an existing facility, and when an original mission statement is being systematically gutted by current Steamtown management.

Privatization of a US Government Activity is common throughout DOD and happens all the time. There is no reason NPS can't do the same at Steamtown but it has to be directed by senior leadership. If activities are determined to be commercial in nature and not inherently governmental, then those activities can be outsourced. Steam locomotive restoration, maintenance and operation is not inherently governmental so could/should be subject to outsourcing. The activity should conduct a thorough assessment of its mission and organization and decide what taskes are best outsourced and which ones can remain governmental. A Performance Work Statement is drafted, and an Request For Proposal is released though FEDBIZOPs and contractors given a chance to bid. All contracts are reviewed and a winner chosen via Federal Acquisition Regulations. ALso, the government activity can also form a team and submit a bid...this is called the Most Efficient Organization (MEO). So if NPS wanted to, they could undertake the A-76 study, form an MEO amongst the areas to be outsourced, and put it out for bid. Bidders would have to be registered government contractors but that is a straightforward process. The interesting part would be who in the federal government would sit on a source selection board.

I just wanted to point out that the methodology exists for this privatization to happen and is used all the time. We also have public-private partnerships where DOD contractors like BOEING come into Navy Aviation Depots and conduct aircraft maintenance using Navy tools and test equipment and facilities. The model exists and seems to me it would be a parallel path in the case of Steamtown.

It would be interesting to know the government pay scales for the employees at Steamtown and see how they compare to a private contractor doing the same kind of work. That's usually where the dollar savings come in; plus private companies are usually more flexible in applying innovation to their business practices.

Henrfy 6: I'm not advocating anything based on innuendo and accusations. I pointed out that NPS leadership would first give direction to undertake the study. The study would determine if it's viable and in the best interests of US Government and taxpayers. The A-76 I went through showed a 38% savings from current ops tp outsources pieces of my large warehouse operation, and then the decision was made to issue the RFP. So the analysis is done first. It may show that NPS should outsource some but not all or all of the operation except for management and contract administration. The process takes two to three years and is very detailed. I've never seen one where unsubstantiated accusations and innuendo are involved, after all they are then subject to GAO scrutiny.

Thought I'd point out something useful here, that options do exist to privatize, and that it would all be done in a controlled process.

DonPevsner wrote:I do not have to have personally run a railroad museum to realize when things are rotten at an existing facility, and when an original mission statement is being systematically gutted by current Steamtown management.

Anyone is qualified to make an observation based on their own experiences, I was just curious as to your point of view.

Frankly, no one has yet made a convincing argument to me that Steamtown is the most horrible place on Earth and should be gutted...

-otto-

(1)No one, including myself, has called Steamtown "the most horrible place on Earth."

(2)I did not say that Steamtown "should be gutted." What I DID say was that current Steamtown management has gutted the original mission statement items of:

(a)A large and diverse steam excursion program.

(b)An ongoing steam maintenance/overhaul program, on more than one Steamtown-owned locomotive.

(c)Displaying non-operational steam locomotives and other rolling stock that have not been allowed to rot into the ground over a 22-year period.

Based on the attitude and the quality of written word I have observed on this thread, Mr Pevsner appears to be a real piece of work. He comes across as a foamer with an attitude and no people skills, all emotion and no common scence, he undermines his own credibility. To try and suggest that organizations demand what Government and class one railroads do, that Wick Moreman would do more than laugh at him and his suggestions illustrate how far removed from reality he is. This is the kind of person that helps paint rail buffs in a bad light.

I chimed in early on, and here rings the chimes again.

I have a lot of comments, but I have no personal pony in the race, so I don't wish to make it seem like I agree or disagree.

Regarding Mr. Pevsner, there have been other times that I've found him to be exceptionally abrasive, and this is no exception. Allow me to say that I think overall, his ideas here have exceptional merit. Let me put it this way: if he's wrong, where's the proof in the pudding? In other words, since there is clearly no vibrant steam program, he's likely on to something.

Having said that, man, could he argue any more ineffectively? One moment, complaining about ad hominem attacks and asking for the mods to step in, and then immedaitely calling those who don't agree with him ostriches, and so on. From the original post on to the end, it's simply been combative, and he should be preaching to the choir here...and instead he's browbeating them? Us? Perhaps me?

Let's take this whole argument another way. Don, what's the next viable step? What's going to happen? No more hiding behind past accomplishments, or near-blind comments. What's possible to be done?

Dave Becker

DonPevsner wrote:if one of the Pennsylvania Senators and the local Congressman for Scranton told NS that they would "appreciate" NS' allowing Steamtown to wye its steam locomotive(s) at Portland, PA Yard, and that a lack of cooperation on this very minor request would cause problems for NS' own much-larger requests of government down the line, NS would most probably agree. The same goes for dealing with Fred Green, CEO of CPR.

Sounds to me that you're suggesting our local congressman should "strong-arm" or "bully" NS and CP into allowing something which could potentially cause operational problems and/or legality issues. Sounds a bit like extortion

(1)With regard to being "abrasive", when someone attacks me, I fight back. And I don't believe in pulling punches when I write articles or comments.

(2)Whether or not the Moderator(s) steps-in is immaterial to me. I deliberately toned-down what I really wanted to say to "colorado", as I don't want this thread locked. And I can take care of myself just fine.

(3)What has to be done is:

(a)Reverse the present lack of sufficient and diverse steam excursion and maintenance/overhaul programs at Steamtown NHS.

(b)Properly preserve the rolling stock that will never be used operationally.

(b)Either replace the failed <name redacted> management team with new management that will cure these problems, or privatize these functions.

(c)Use the power of the Federal Government to "jawbone" uncooperative railroads like NS and CP to get what Steamtown needs...which is relatively minor in both cases.
This is not "bullying", and is done all the time by government. There is absolutely nothing wrong with government's trying to enhance the Steamtown steam excursion
program for the benefit of Steamtown patrons--and to justify the $176+ million investment of Federal taxpayer dollars in Steamtown--by asking for some minor cooperation by
two profitable operating railroads before giving them millions more in taxpayer dollars to improve their for-profit overhead clearances; help them build for-profit sidings; and so forth.

(d)I am NOT advocating that Steamtown create any genuine operational problems for either NS or CP. The NS line between Slateford Junction and Portland, PA is hardly used. And the
CP line between Scranton and Binghamton is hardly the Northeast Corridor, either...and infrequent Steamtown steam excursion runs could easily be scheduled to avoid regular CP
freight traffic.

(4)Let's see what the SCRANTON TIMES-TRIBUNE runs over the next several weeks.

(5)I wrote my article as a COLUMNIST, not as an "objective investigative reporter." I was a syndicated newspaper columnist for four years, and am quite familiar with the form, in which my opinion is the focus of any article. And I don't need any journalism lectures from anyone on this thread.

Yes, if this makes the national news, congress could get lots and lots of letters from the voters - most of them demanding they close this place down completely and scrap all the locomotives. At a time when there are worldwide economic problems, energy problems, a housing crisis, bank failures, and budget deficits, creating a widely publicized emergency to seek the overhaul of an operation whose mission is a distorted dream of how the US railroads might have looked in the 1940s and 1950s if they had hidden the diesels and operated Canadian steam locomotives, is very likely to generate a heated response from the public.

MX

henry6 wrote: Also, the single track line to Binghamton is often choked with CP and NS traffic. Though a new controled siding has been added between New Milford and Hallstead the line cannot handle more trains. Especially tourist trains. I have spoken with CP people quite bit over the past several years, and, no, I don't believe they are in a position to entertain such a proposal under today's traffic conditions.

There is evidence showing that CP has cleared another mile near Clarks Summit that may indicate they are planning to install another passing siding or something. I don't live next to these tracks but my sister did for 2 years and she said many trains passed though in a day.

Mike

Interesting fact: A quick look over of the NPS website does not show any "Centennial" funding for Steamtown. This means that either the NPS or the President did not see a need for special funding towards the park in prep for the NPS centennial.