Southern Tier Line Gang Mills - Elmira Gas Traffic

Good Morning,

I need help. There is a another "frac" sand company that wants to move in, but the area is already blessed with capacity and growth using its existing infrastructure. As you know, Gang Mills interchanges frac sand with WCOR. The Center at Horseheads (Holding Point) is at near capacity with a "frac" sand company, and gas supply company plus two other unrelated gas businesses. Car count this morning is at 65. WIN Transmodal has a Gas Chemical Company leasing and the #6 LH switch is in across from Elmira Yard but waiting on signal cut in. Lower Elmira Yard is leased out. The Hinckley Power Station spur can't be leased out by AES because they've been approached several times and declined. Baker St. Yard would need substatial capital investment for access road and building of a track in the yard. No room at Gang Mills. Southern Tier Logisitics of course build their warehouse by the tracks but didn't put in rail access (but they maybe quickly changing).

Can any of you help me figure out an existing location? It doesn't look like there's any left, unless that MT Plant in Waverly. I actually need your help. But, perhaps it's too late coming to the teet so late. So it looks like building new one way or the other has to happen.

Easy answer: call the B&H. IMO, they certainly to seem to have the capacity for a frac sand operation.

Matt Langworthy wrote:Easy answer: call the B&H. IMO, they certainly to seem to have the capacity for a frac sand operation.

And I'm sure they'd appreciate the extra traffic.
Though, Wouldn't this further complicate the interchange process at Painted Post if Gang Mills is "technically" full? Someone care to elaborate on said subject?

K4;

I would suggest the old North Corning NYC yard. There are two sidings there now -- one for the coal drags and one that was used for pipe deliveries. I assume that NS still owns the property and it is flat and close to the interstate and 15. Wouldn't take much to set up a sand unloading facility, IMO. Don't know the zoning, however.

I also like the B&H idea but do not know what real estate is available west of PP nor the zoning (which could be a major consideration). Maybe something in the neighborhood of the concrete plant? Strings of sand cars rolling through PP might be problemmatic, too.

I also thought about the Morton site in Himrod (zoned for this and close to 14) but it is too far away from the Marcellus shale. The gas up in that area will come initially, at least, from another formation that does not require huge amounts of sand for extraction.

Poppyl

Lehighton_Man wrote:

Matt Langworthy wrote:Easy answer: call the B&H. IMO, they certainly to seem to have the capacity for a frac sand operation.

And I'm sure they'd appreciate the extra traffic.
Though, Wouldn't this further complicate the interchange process at Painted Post if Gang Mills is "technically" full? Someone care to elaborate on said subject?

The capacity issue at Gang Mills is not a matter of tracks. From what I've seen, it is hemmed in by the Chemung River on one side and the expressway on the other side... so there isn't rooom there to build the actual transload facility itself. The B&H runs through open countryside west of Painted Post, which may be suitable for development. The WNYP could potentially be a good candidate for a transload facility, as well, since the forme EL mainline is quite close to the PA border and the ex-Pennsy line actually extends down into PA. I am curious about where the facility's customers are located and if the company wishes to be specifically located in the Corning/Elmira area... or if anywhere along the NY/PA border is suitable.

Already talked about Baker St, Yard old "YD". Those tracks are NS for 525/524 Dresden Coal and HO6 tie downs. He said, "Current Yard tracks at Baker Street are not available. Baker Street will need work-

specifically new highway access and a new siding for transloading. We will be happy to entertain offers."

Sayre PA yard is wide open, huge, and mostly empty..
but might already be "spoken for"..
there has been talk about the Lehigh Railway being invloved, in some way, with this sand business..
also the Reading & Northern..which are both South from Sayre..

Scot

How large is one of these facilities and how many car lengths are you talking at one time?

Former DL&W main in Big Flats? Exit 49 on I86. The storage company end has three tracks. Might be easy to install a run around.

Charles

Sorry for the mental lapse on Baker Street, although I still think that may be your best and maybe cheapest option. BTW, why not leave HO6 over at Gang Mills and use the track for sand like NS did for the two years or so that the Millenium pipeline deliveries occured?

Here's the problem (and I mean no disrespect to anyone) -- everyone wants something for nothing right now. I can understand that as this will be a relatively short term requirement of maybe several years until the PA fields are drilled. The need is now, not five years from now. That means capability and permits must be in place. And no one wants to sink a lot into "new from the ground up" "permanent" facilities. Add to this that as time goes on the locus of drilling will shift from northeast to southwest across the Northern Tier with Rte 15 being right down the spine and access to that route will be important. If anything, another facility along the WCOR is probably the most logical, IMO, but there is the question of infrastructure and zoning.

IMO, NS may have to bite the bullet and make a hard decision -- do they want this business enough to reallocate resources (like space in the Elmira yard or Baker Street) and modify operations accordingly? To their credit they have eliminated a lot of excess trackage over the years but this is one instance where it may be hurting their ability to generate additional business.

In the final analysis, I'm sure that NS will figure out a way to get this business.

Poppyl

Just curious Poppyl....where has NS eliminated "a lot" of excess track? Since ConRail, NS has done nothing but improve the Tier tremendously. Sure they got rid of the Buffalo Line, Olean Secondary, east of Binghamton, and the Bath Secondary to shortlines, but they haven't torn up much track at all. Now they're talking of improving the double track and possibly extending it? That's good news to me. You must not remember the Tier during the last years of ConRail too well....

Anchorman wrote:Just curious Poppyl....where has NS eliminated "a lot" of excess track? Since ConRail, NS has done nothing but improve the Tier tremendously. Sure they got rid of the Buffalo Line, Olean Secondary, east of Binghamton, and the Bath Secondary to shortlines, but they haven't torn up much track at all. Now they're talking of improving the double track and possibly extending it? That's good news to me. You must not remember the Tier during the last years of ConRail too well....

Sorry if my words weren't clear -- I was referring to unused and abandoned sidings. I'm with you 100% about what NS has done in terms of improving conditions and I'm not being critical of the company at all. IMO, they inherited a situation that was, at best, in serious decline, if not headed to extinction, and brought it back to being relevant again. I'm not second guessing their past business and operational decisions as they related to the Tier.

Five years ago we wouldn't even been having this discussion about a sand facility since the Marcellus Shale was still a geological theory. No one at that time could have predicted the subsequent ramifications in many areas, including the impact on NS operations on the Southern Tier.

As I said earlier, IMO, NS will find a way to accommodate this new business opportunity just as they responded to the Horseheads operation.

Poppyl

could the Owego & Hartford handle the traffic? Seems like some of the old LV west of Owego is still in place and lightly used.

I think regardless where you go, some capital investment is going to be required, even if it's relay ties and relay of worn or jointed rail. A place like Baker Street with a couple new tracks built expressly for this service sounds like the best bet, assuming the unused portions of the yard haven't gone to pot so bad you'd need to regrade the place to put them in. I'm not sure the cost would be much higher going from scratch as rebuilding some existing track. What kind of car capacity do you need?

As previously mentioned- a lot would depend on capacity. Likewise accessibility and if the facility would require security/warehousing/etc or a simple siding for transloading would suffice.

Simple sidings could be had at Wellsburg, NY with easy access to Rt 17/I86, and as Scotty said- Sayre yard has ample accessiblity. East Waverly also had the Grand Union warehouse area that could have potential.

Reference Grand Union facility:

http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/EF ... WLzxztZAl7

The OHRY has kept their yard pretty full at times with salt and tank traffic, but if the salt transload is seasonal - there is a spur waiting for use....

Its a bit out of the way from the Corning area,
but the Rochester & Southern (G&W) has a fairly large yard facility, lightly used, at Retsof..
Probably some under-utilized trackage at P&L Junction, Caledonia, as well..

Access off the NS Southern Tier main at Silver Springs, and CSX out of Rochester..

Scot