Southern Railway - Amtrak Overlap and Transition

The Crescent still ran to New York. Between WAS and NYP was the train operated by Amtrak or PC, and if by Amtrak, was any Amtrak funding or marketing used?

Amtrak; only a limited consist of two Coaches and two Sleepers was interchanged to Amtrak at Wash and handled to NY on what otherwise would be known today as a Regional. The Diner, "Crescent--" Master Bedroom-Lounge, additional Coaches and Sleepers originated at Wash.

This was an interline movement; while quite common during 'railroad days' the only example of such today is the Amtrak/VIA "Maple Leaf'.

This train resulted in some interesting equipment assignments during the mid-70's. At first there were no particular operational problems as the through cars were placed on the head of train 172 at Wash, the "G" coupled up 'and we're off'. However, when the Amfleets came on the property during later 1975, Marketing wanted them assigned to likely the strongest Corridor train which happened to be 172. Surely Operations said "how can we with these interchange cars from the Southern that need steam for both heat AND air (some SRY cars had Steam-Ejector systems). Marketing won; and the solution was to have a train with both HEP and steam. on the head were the SRY cars getting their needed steam from either a "G" or an E-60 (five of such were delivered with steam generators). On the rear was a Power Car providing HEP to the Amfleets. In theory, all was well, but in practice the Power Cars proved quite unreliable and could not be accessed while moving (assuming the Train Crew was even qualified to restart the unit) and often the trains ran "hot and dark' to a major stop where there was a qualified Electrician on duty.

Sorry, GBN, not so, much of the train was interchanged at Washington and it ran right through to Boston for some time.
I ran 171 which was the SC at the time from New Haven to New York many different times and we had mostly Southern
equipment which was a really neat train to run. It handled beautifully. We had sleepers, a diner, lounge, many coaches
the whole shebang.
Noel Weaver

In 1975 (August) I traveled from Birmingham to Boston. I had to move into the front of the train at New York. I had a sleeper and then a coach seat. Presumably the Southern part of the train was detached.

If memory serves, DRG&W's CZ and a small Rock Island train also stayed out of Amtrak for awhile.

On another topic, the Amtrak Maple Leaf (a current run through) is an improvement as in PC days, it was an across the platform connection to TH&B Budd cars at Buffalo from Empire Service.

I also rode the Southern Crescent in 1974. Southbound from Washington to Birmingham, and then northbound from Birmingham to Newark, NJ.

Rode coach...no change of cars at all.

A great train with great service!!!!!

I rode the Southern Crescent #1 & 2 over Labor Day Weekend 1977, NYP to Atlanta round trip. I remember there were Southern RR coaches and sleepers at New York for the southbound trip. Had to ride coach NYP-WAS but was able to upgrade to sleeper Royal Court at Washington. I remember nothing different regarding the ticketing etc, as if getting a ticket for an Amtrak run. Perhaps Southern relied on Amtrak at least at NYP and WAS? For the return trip north rode in the Rivanna River sleeper. One of the runs had the sleeper lounge Crescent Shores. I recall peeking in the unoccupied master room, very nice!

The Southern Crescent was one fine train, even at that late date.

Amtk30

In our book Under Pennsy Wires on page 280 are two pictures from October 13, 1975, of the Southern Cresent passing Elizabeth, NJ behind GG-1 918 and a former NH combine on the back complete with Amtrak cigar-band. The caption reads, in part,

Through cars for the Southern Railway train of the same name were included in the train.

Reviewing Offical Guides from 1974 and 1975 reveal that numerous cars (diner, coaches, sleeping cars) were added at Washington while others (bar-food car, dome parlor car) were added at Atlanta.

The Southern Crescent also handled a through transcontinental sleeper between LA and New York and for awhile in the early ‘70s……all the way from LA to Boston.

I did the LA – Washington trip in 1975 and you could occupy the sleeper overnight in New Orleans before continuing on the next day attached to the Southern Crescent.

Trip Report here along with a photos and a timetable for the transcon sleeper:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 55&t=69415

Yes, that was advertised as "Your Hotel on Wheels"...essentially giving you a place to stay while still enjoying the sights of New Orleans.

That's a service that should be restored someday.

From reviewing Amtrak System Timetables, there was a brief period after A-Day in which Boston-New Orleans Coaches and Sleepers were operated . The January 16, 1972 Timetable has reference to such, however, by October 29, 1972 Timetable, those cars had been withdrawn as a note stating "car to car transfer in New York" is included.

Further, since during that era, Amtrak had names on all of its NEC trains, the train that handled the through cars 172-173 was named by Amtrak as the Southern Crescent.

Now with regards to Dining service; during that era, Amtrak timetables were very cryptic regarding on-board services, but I do acknowledge that the cited October timetable shows 'crossed tableware', or Dining service, between Wash and Boston. Further, Amtrak timetables during that era were prone to many errors, I am questionable as to what extent that was actually operated. (edit) A review of March 1971 Guide shows both Diner and Master Room Lounge "Crescent--' were operated Wash-Atlanta only. Therefore, it is quite unlikely that SRY commenced an interchange of these cars with Amtrak effective A-Day.

Finally, regarding the number of cars interchanged by the SRY and forwarded to NY or Boston as the case may be, my personal recollections from that era was four cars, however, and in deference to Mr. Weaver, there could well have been a greater number at times. After all he was there; and required by Rules to inspect his train for hotboxes or dragging equipment as it moved through inward curves (and his Fireman required to do same as well).

Not only did I run that train several times westbound out of New Haven but I also saw it on the road many different times.
It ran with mostly but not all Southern Railway equipment.
Trains 50 and 51 also ran to and from Boston during that general period and these trains had a mixture of cars from all over
the place. I don't remember as much about them but 50 was a New York job and I ran that train too.
I will check both my timebooks and Amtrak timetables when I have time but I am way too busy for most of this month to
try to dig that stuff out.
This was a very early period of Amtrak operations and they were still trying to get their act together. I also seem to think
that during 1972 they were trying to cut back on Sunnyside Yard a bit and sending these trains on to Boston did that.
I seem to think there were some Florida sleeping cars east of New York as well but again I am not sure and these were only the sleeper(s) and not an entire train to my knowledge.
It is a lot of work sometimes to settle a difference of opinion on these forums and I have other irons in the fire too.
Noel Weaver

Amtk30 wrote:I rode the Southern Crescent #1 & 2 over Labor Day Weekend 1977, NYP to Atlanta round trip. I remember there were Southern RR coaches and sleepers at New York for the southbound trip. Had to ride coach NYP-WAS but was able to upgrade to sleeper Royal Court at Washington. I remember nothing different regarding the ticketing etc, as if getting a ticket for an Amtrak run. Perhaps Southern relied on Amtrak at least at NYP and WAS? For the return trip north rode in the Rivanna River sleeper. One of the runs had the sleeper lounge Crescent Shores. I recall peeking in the unoccupied master room, very nice!

The Southern Crescent was one fine train, even at that late date.

Amtk30

Wow .. small world! I rode SR trains 1 and 2 on Labor Day weekend 1977, from Atlanta to New Orleans and return.

I remember there was a heavyweight office car on #1 arriving at Atlanta on Saturday morning. The the locomotives were replaced at Atlanta; our units from Washington taken off and four freshly washed and serviced units added for the run to New Orleans. The office car and some cars on the rear were cutoff by a switcher; the dome parlor car was added tot the rear. I don't recall if the office car was reattached to the rear of the consist. Somewhere I have six or ten slides of that station scene at Atlanta.

I enjoyed the meals in the dining car, and riding in the dome parlor car. The whole atmosphere onboard seemed very different from that which I had encountered on Amtrak trains in the past six years, with the exception of The Adirondack between Rensselaer and Montreal, which had a strong D&H atmosphere with minimal reminders that it was actually an Amtrak train.

I regret I never rode Southern Railway's Skyland Special trains between Salisbury and Asheville in the early 1970s.

StLouSteve wrote:If memory serves, DRG&W's CZ and a small Rock Island train also stayed out of Amtrak for awhile
.

Without straying too far off the topic, yes, the Rio Grande, Rock Island, and the Georgia Road also opted out of Amtrak.
The Rio Grande ran the Rio Grande Zephyr, the RI ran 2 daily trains, The Quad Cities Rocket, and The Peoria Rocket, and the Georgia continued to run it's interesting mixed trains from Atlanta. All these runs were shown on Amtrak maps of the times.

The Southern also ran a connecting train for The Crescent, as well as the daily, Piedmont, between Washington and Atlanta.
These 2 trains came off in the mid-1970's.

The railroads that opted out of Amtrak had to commit that they would run their services for 5 years before seeking any
discontinuance of services.

Ken

And now the Piedmont runs as a "NC" train. Pity. There should be two-a-day service to Atlanta from DC if not NY, even if it terminates in Atlanta.

I rode the Crescent on 4/24-25/1979 from Newark Penn to Anniston, AL, but it just been turned over to Amtrak by then.