So, what just happened?

Last night, I boarded 3979 @ Nwk Penn (6:54p Trenton Exp) for my trip to Jersey Avenue. It arrived only about 1minute or so late on track 3 but about 3 minutes after 3731 (6:56p Jersey Ave local)'s early arrival on track 4. 3731 leaves a bit ahead of us but we later pass it just west of Nwk Airport station. All is well thus far.

Then we get to just west of Metropark and come to a dead stop on track 3. After sitting for several minutes, 3731 passes us on track 4. After a few MORE minutes, we continue on to s l o w l y trail 3731 until my stop at Jersey Ave. Concurrrent with this, the conductor announced that we are being moved behind the Jersey Avenue local and will trail behind it until Jersey Avenue.

Needless to say, I wasn't very happy as this defeated the purpose of riding the express. Why would Amtrak opt to do this? No Amtrak train even passed us until I was on the platform at Jersey ave so, it couldn't have been a 'get out of Amtrak's way' type of move...could it? Could our engineer have pissed off the block operator and this was a little payback?

With my annoyance somewhat abated, I'm just wondering if I should even bother taking an express over a local.

if there was an acela in the mix...they get precedence.

It's Amtraks railroad and they can pretty much do as they please. I doubt it was "revenge", but I won;t rule it out.

I've had my trains held on Track A in Secaucus for nearly 15 minutes before so we could watch a late Acela blow by. In those 15 minutes we could have easily been unloading at New York... but heaven forbid we get in the path of an Oncoming Acela.

Sooner or later they will just fleet the entire NEC as soon as a crew is assembled in Boston.

while I doubt it was because of the engineer po'ed the dispatcher, sometimes that is an issue!

If a dispatcher knows that a crew isn't going to "dilly dally" around and will get the train moving, he will pull up the railroad for that train and give them "a good move" if they give him " a good move".

If an engineer is slow, or the crew is slow with the doors in opening and closing them adn getting the people off the train, the dispatcher might not give them a "good move" where as a good crew, on the same train, just a different day of the week, might get the railroad and the good move.

Jtgshu wrote:while I doubt it was because of the engineer po'ed the dispatcher, sometimes that is an issue!

If a dispatcher knows that a crew isn't going to "dilly dally" around and will get the train moving, he will pull up the railroad for that train and give them "a good move" if they give him " a good move".

If an engineer is slow, or the crew is slow with the doors in opening and closing them adn getting the people off the train, the dispatcher might not give them a "good move" where as a good crew, on the same train, just a different day of the week, might get the railroad and the good move.

Never blame the Dispatcher

Jtgshu wrote:while I doubt it was because of the engineer po'ed the dispatcher, sometimes that is an issue!

If a dispatcher knows that a crew isn't going to "dilly dally" around and will get the train moving, he will pull up the railroad for that train and give them "a good move" if they give him " a good move".

If an engineer is slow, or the crew is slow with the doors in opening and closing them adn getting the people off the train, the dispatcher might not give them a "good move" where as a good crew, on the same train, just a different day of the week, might get the railroad and the good move.

Thank you.

wolfboy8171981 wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:while I doubt it was because of the engineer po'ed the dispatcher, sometimes that is an issue!

If a dispatcher knows that a crew isn't going to "dilly dally" around and will get the train moving, he will pull up the railroad for that train and give them "a good move" if they give him " a good move".

If an engineer is slow, or the crew is slow with the doors in opening and closing them adn getting the people off the train, the dispatcher might not give them a "good move" where as a good crew, on the same train, just a different day of the week, might get the railroad and the good move.

Never blame the Dispatcher

of course not! I know better, but some guys, like to

.......those stupid lunar lights for express trains.......im not gonna take that signal!!! You have me misrouted!!!!

Just another "Amtrak Human Error" delay. 3975 (The 654pm express to New Brunswick from Newark Penn Station) is due into New Brunswick 12 minutes ahead of 3731. There could have been extenuating circumstances that required this move, but that's quite a stretch given that the express was already ahead of the local. Even though this was on Amtrak, it typifies NJT management thinking, however. I wouldn't be surprised if the crew of 3975 got the third degree about "why are you late" at some point.

Not every time there is a problem with a NJT train, does it mean that Amtrak is at fault. It does get alil tiring reading that on this board all of the time. Without being a member of the crew,its hard to tell what was the cause. It couldve been poor scheduling, poor dispatching or whatever. You failed to mention that track work is ongoing and track 3 is OOS meaning that most wb trains are traveling down 4 or depending on where the trains are, could travel down track B. Until this track work is all complete everything will be screwed up.

Sirsonic wrote:Just another "Amtrak Human Error" delay. 3975 (The 654pm express to New Brunswick from Newark Penn Station) is due into New Brunswick 12 minutes ahead of 3731. There could have been extenuating circumstances that required this move, but that's quite a stretch given that the express was already ahead of the local. Even though this was on Amtrak, it typifies NJT management thinking, however. I wouldn't be surprised if the crew of 3975 got the third degree about "why are you late" at some point.

A fail to see how this incident "typifies NJT management thinking". Or for that matter, what that statement even means. Furthermore, and not to cast aspersions on the original poster, but there is no delay report on file for train 3975 from the date in question. This means that either the event did not play out as the original poster implied or that somehow train 3975 was able to make it from COUNTY to Trenton in 24 minutes with station stops.

cruiser939 wrote:

Sirsonic wrote:Just another "Amtrak Human Error" delay. 3975 (The 654pm express to New Brunswick from Newark Penn Station) is due into New Brunswick 12 minutes ahead of 3731. There could have been extenuating circumstances that required this move, but that's quite a stretch given that the express was already ahead of the local. Even though this was on Amtrak, it typifies NJT management thinking, however. I wouldn't be surprised if the crew of 3975 got the third degree about "why are you late" at some point.

A fail to see how this incident "typifies NJT management thinking". Or for that matter, what that statement even means. Furthermore, and not to cast aspersions on the original poster, but there is no delay report on file for train 3975 from the date in question. This means that either the event did not play out as the original poster implied or that somehow train 3975 was able to make it from COUNTY to Trenton in 24 minutes with station stops.

I think what Sir is getting at is when crews get called, either into the office, or over the radio (like on the Coast Line) and the dispatcher or whoever is asking 27 questions as to why the train is late, and making it seem like it was the engineers or crews fault for the train being late. And if there was a door or equipment problem, then mechanical desk gets involved and starts asking questions about "well why didn't you do this". I know the delay reports might end up saying something totally different, but this is the time BEFORE the delay reports are written and the "blame gets assigned".

I heard one time when the dispatcher was hounding the engineer for a reason as to why the train was late (after the eng gave the reason three times, it apparenlty wasn't good enough) and then you hear the engineer having to request permission to reverse back a car length into Avenel Station. Whats the rush, why couldn't the dispatcher ask for the cond to give him a call when he gets a chance, or at the end of the trip to give him a call (like how it used to be). Some dispatchers are much better than others with this, and understand that the crew actually has some work to do and that there are station stops to make inbetween those little lights on that board...

Jtgshu wrote:

cruiser939 wrote:

Sirsonic wrote:Just another "Amtrak Human Error" delay. 3975 (The 654pm express to New Brunswick from Newark Penn Station) is due into New Brunswick 12 minutes ahead of 3731. There could have been extenuating circumstances that required this move, but that's quite a stretch given that the express was already ahead of the local. Even though this was on Amtrak, it typifies NJT management thinking, however. I wouldn't be surprised if the crew of 3975 got the third degree about "why are you late" at some point.

A fail to see how this incident "typifies NJT management thinking". Or for that matter, what that statement even means. Furthermore, and not to cast aspersions on the original poster, but there is no delay report on file for train 3975 from the date in question. This means that either the event did not play out as the original poster implied or that somehow train 3975 was able to make it from COUNTY to Trenton in 24 minutes with station stops.

I think what Sir is getting at is when crews get called, either into the office, or over the radio (like on the Coast Line) and the dispatcher or whoever is asking 27 questions as to why the train is late, and making it seem like it was the engineers or crews fault for the train being late. And if there was a door or equipment problem, then mechanical desk gets involved and starts asking questions about "well why didn't you do this". I know the delay reports might end up saying something totally different, but this is the time BEFORE the delay reports are written and the "blame gets assigned".

I heard one time when the dispatcher was hounding the engineer for a reason as to why the train was late (after the eng gave the reason three times, it apparenlty wasn't good enough) and then you hear the engineer having to request permission to reverse back a car length into Avenel Station. Whats the rush, why couldn't the dispatcher ask for the cond to give him a call when he gets a chance, or at the end of the trip to give him a call (like how it used to be). Some dispatchers are much better than others with this, and understand that the crew actually has some work to do and that there are station stops to make inbetween those little lights on that board...

If that is indeed what the intended message was, I can understand the frustration. However, it should be noted that the Mechanical desk and Dispatchers are not NJT management.

The delay reports are not written, but rather generated. If your train arrived at its terminal more than 5m 59secs down on its schedule, then it gets put in the report, no exceptions. Seeing as this incident was not in the report, there should have been no reason to ascertain why the train was running late. That being said, I understand that anything can happen out there and the crew being contacted is not unbelievable. I still think there might be some information missing from the original scenario that was put forth.

cruiser939 wrote: The delay reports are not written, but rather generated. If your train arrived at its terminal more than 5m 59secs down on its schedule, then it gets put in the report, no exceptions. Seeing as this incident was not in the report, there should have been no reason to ascertain why the train was running late. That being said, I understand that anything can happen out there and the crew being contacted is not unbelievable. I still think there might be some information missing from the original scenario that was put forth.

Cause as we learned from 7 Train, all the details are correct the first time the story is told.

Cruiser - I could elaborate on what I said, but I don't feel its best to do so on a public forum. Look for a PM soon.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Not every time there is a problem with a NJT train, does it mean that Amtrak is at fault. It does get alil tiring reading that on this board all of the time.

It gets tiring as a passenger too! I heard them once blame an Amtrak train for a delay and we roll up next to it and it's clearly NJT.