Snow storm for tomorrow

Alchole train passed Valley at aprox, 16:00 hrs.
Power consisted of MP (#164 West & #172 East)
MP15 #168 parked at valley-east for protect service

also I seen a train pass Malvern withen the 1600hr.
It was a M1 consist, and the horn sounded cloged.

Phil,

The M-7 should indeed continue to perform better than the M-1/M-3 in the winter. Snow/ice, of course, is a major failure culprit in the legacy cars. But, as any of you guys that know electronics are aware, bitter cold will also make electronic components fail.
We not only get legacy cars with flashed M/As and traction motors, but we get numerous cars where the control circuitry for M/A, propulsion, HVAC, brakes, ATC, etc., has failed. All because most of that stuff is in the groups under the cars, and exposed to ambient temps 24/7. It's not uncommon for an M-1 or M-3 pair to come into the house with 4 or 5 problems on it in the dead of winter.
The M-7 has moved much of the control circuitry up into the [climate controlled] cars, into the 2 electric lockers behind the Engineer's cab. If you're comfortable and dry in the car, the electronics are also comfortable and dry.
The stuff that has been necessarily left outside in the weather, notably APS, propulsion inverters, traction motors, and air brake controllers, have actually had some thought put into their design as to the fact that they will be out in the weather (A novel concept for LIRR equipment designers). The control circuitry and IGBTs are not exposed to ice/snow, and if it was felt necessary, a heater was put in the box.
The cooling outside air only passes over the heat sinks from the power components, as well as over the chokes, transformers, etc., which are supposedly varnished or otherwise insulated enough to not ground out or short when snow or rain passes over them. It remains to be seen whether those insulations withstand the test of time (and salt and sand). These components are in a separate compartment in the inverters, and are well sealed and gasketed from the electronics compartment.
The traction motors, by their very design (AC induction), are not as susceptible to grounding and/or flashover. Indeed, there is no filter whatsoever on the traction motor air intakes. Just a mesh screen to keep leaves and larger size debris out. They apparently don't really care if snow or rain passes through the motor. The Mitsubishi traction motors are warranted for [either] 10 or 12 years.
M-7 doors should also operate much better. There may be the occasional car where fluffy, light, blowing snow gets into a limit switch and sticks it, but certainly not on the order of what the LIRR and MNRR had last year on the legacy cars. The main operating equipment for M-7 doors is all up top, as far away from track level as possible. Threshold heater thermostat issue (they ground out) will be resolved under warranty.

Now, some things are out there in the weather (there is no choice) that may still be problematic at times. Couplers, air brake components, etc. are difficult, if not impossible, to weatherproof. They are out there (and near track level) and take a beating in the winter. Maintaining gaskets and weatherstripping, making sure your air compressor air dryers are working, etc., is obviously helpful for those items.

Tom

Service on Sunday was actually decent. I took a trip into Jamica to see how things were. The train going west was only late by three minutes but the return trip home was right on time.

Also caught both alcohol trains leaving Jamica. 152/e401/p171 were one consist going east, 172, a blue striped m1 car and another unit (forget #) were on the siding at Hillside.

Yes, that is one weak spot. No matter how new and hi-tech the car, the 3rd rail pickup contact shoe situation has not changed over the years. The third rail still has problems with snow and ice buildup, even in 2005 with fancy M-7 cars.
The MNRR ubiquitous spokesman, Mr. Brucker, was quoted on TV as saying that MNRR was indeed having problems keeping ahead of the blowing snow interfering with third rail pickup.
The LIRR alcohol trains and patrol trains apparently did a heckuva job, pending final disposition of, "How'd we do?".
I would still like to see 3rd rail heaters installed on the main trunk lines of the LIRR. Certainly not to take the "extra" work away from the Engineers and Conductors. They would still run the alcohol trains and patrol trains on the branch lines, but could do more frequent, even better job on the branch lines.

I remember riding the LI through Jamaica during snow storms when I was in high school. I distinctly remember the blue flames at every turnout point from gas jets used to keep the points clear of ice and snow. Is this still done today?

I distinctly remember the blue flames at every turnout point from gas jets used to keep the points clear of ice and snow. Is this still done today?

You bet. Some places, such as West Side Yard and the west end of Babylon Yard, have electric switch heaters. Jamaica still has the gas heaters. Some places undoubtedly still use kerosene pots. I would venture the guess that newer yards, such as KO and Arch Street, are outfitted with electric switch heaters when built.

Tom

No service today east of Ronkonkoma due to 'snow drifts' - bus service will be provided.

So I guess when the weather gets rough, the LIRR turns to bus service to get people where they want to go - shouldn't this be the exact opposite? Does the Greenport line negotiate Donner Pass? Pretty lame if you ask me - and also shows how (un)important the LIRR deems this branch.

Well, here is my report on this past weekend. As much as I believed that a nightmare was on it's way, everything went pretty good for the most part with only minor delays of up to 20 minutes on a few trains. The hero of the day were the M-7s. They were absolutely amazing in the snow. While they arced much like the M-1/ M-3's did, they managed to keep rolling and picking up sufficient power to maintain speed. On both days, my crew operated both the M-1/ M-3 equipment as well as the M-7, and what a difference. With the old stuff, we were struggling to maintain speed, since the engineer could not draw sufficient power with all the arcing. MAS was at best 55 mph if he was able to even get there. The M-7's were able to go all the way up to MAS (80MPH) with little effort. The doors on the M-1/3's kept getting hung open since they would freeze up, and by the time we found the hung door, we already lost a few minutes trying to either close it, or to cut out the door. Some cars didn't have heat, the horn stopped working for my engineer between CI and Ronkonkoma, we had 4 dead cars, and that was just the minor problems we were having. Our return trip to Penn on an M-7 went flawless. No frozen doors, all the cars had heat, the horn worked just fine, and all cars had power.

Hands down, The M-7's did a marvelous job in the snow. Surprisingly, the LIRR did better during the storm than after. While the snow came down, we were averaging 5 minute delays. On sunday, because of numerous frozen switches, there were delays of up to 20 minutes. In fact, my first eastbound to Ronkonkoma was delayed outside of Jay for 20 minutes while track maintanence personel un-froze the switch. There were plenty of people out there making the RR run smoothly, and my compliments to all of them for a job well done. To think that MNR and NJ TRANSIT were running on a 2 hour schedule, we managed to run with minimal delays. It would have been logical to run only M-7's throughout the storm, but we still don't have enough M-7's to cover every train on the weekends, but there were many out and running. Heck, the Rononkoma line which doesn't normally host many M-7's regularly was hosting more of them this weekend than what they normally do. They also had the Dual-modes running around with the normal 8-car train (double-ended). Three sets were at WSY as of 2:15PM yesterday. I wasn't sure what they were using them for, but I did see them on the road a few times throughout the day yesterday.

Overall, I was amazed at how well everything went. Of Course, all of that will go un-noticed as the normal commuters return to work today. They could not fathome a 10-20 minute delay, so I'm sure that by this evening the media will be bashing the LIRR again, throwing out all the hard effort that employees put in this weekend to have everything close to normal for today's commute. Oh well, no-one said that we were out there to get compliments, but I sure received many this weekend, and that was an oddity on it's own. Say what you want to say about the M-7's, but they earned their keep this past weekend!

Although far removed from Long Island - both in time and distance - I feel great pride in the "can-do" work ethic of L.I.R.R employees. When push comes to shove, you guys and gals out there shine. Considering all the obstacles encountered during snow operations and very cold temperatures, sounds like a job well done!! Makes me proud of my Long Island heritage. Thanks to this forum for the information and update on this past weekend operations.

Portions of the Main Line east of Riverhead are subject to snow drifts of up to 5 feet in places, particularly in Cutchogue. Most of the area is still wide open farmland, and a light powdery snow like we had will blow over the tracks and will collect there in spots. This is also a problem for the highways out there as well.

Running a plow or blower doesn't help too much either, as it blows right back once its gone through.

If you want to know the truth, yes, the LIRR probably could care less about this line, its one car train and all making three round trips during the course of a day, in light of the fact that passenger wise it is a drop in the bucket.

Jay

Mark,

Thanks for that report. As a commuter I haven't heard too much complaining about the delays this week. I have been delayed both Monday and Tuesday mornings by a half hour. I just see it as an opportunity to sleep longer

Jay,

Was NYA asked to help clear the mainline again by running light? I seem to recall the NYA being asked to do that once before?

Greenport service was suspended during the storm for several reasons, none related to the ability of a train to get to Greenport.

1. There is virtually no ridership on the cancelled trains.

2. The equipment was needed elsewhere in the event that electric service was suspended.

3. The manpower needed to keep the route operated safely ( dig out switches and platforms, fix gates broken by cars, etc) was better used elsewhere.

Why waste resources on a line that nobody uses.

Clem

So I guess when the weather gets rough, the LIRR turns to bus service to get people where they want to go - shouldn't this be the exact opposite? Does the Greenport line negotiate Donner Pass? Pretty lame if you ask me - and also shows how (un)important the LIRR deems this branch.

As I recall, the bus line does not have to clear its route of snow. That is handled by municipal services. The LIRR like any other railroad has to take care of its own stuff. Furthermore, a bus can also drive around an obstacle... the LIRR can only follow its track.

This is really true. There are only a handfull of riders on the Greenport scoot that would not warrant the need to put all that man power into clearing the way for trains to pass. I'm sure once things are under control on the rest of the property, they will send out crews to clear the way. Bus service is still being provided for those few who ride on it. I work on the 4:05 train from Ronkonkoma to Penn and we always get a Greenport connection. On average, I would have to say that I get about a good 10-15 people off of that train onto ours. So it's not much as you can see. The other problem is, during this weather, you encouter many other problems, (besides frozen switches), frozen crossing protection gates that remain in the up postition ( which was a common occurence on sunday). If any of these problems should occur while going out to Greenport, or even worse, get stuck, it would take a while for someone to get there to rescue that train. So it's not really worth taking any chances. I'm sure the freight has already trecked out east and quite possibly clear some of the those snow drifts, even though on Sunday night, 2 pairs of MP 15's arrived at Ronkonkoma yard after coming east, so they had trains running to clear the way.

Okay, nobody uses this line - who would, with the severely limited service available? I realize that the LIRR doesn't want to dump resources into keeping a line clear for a one-car train four times a day, but doesn't this beg the question: Why run trains on this line at all? I'm sure it would be cheaper to run a bus full-time instead of maintaining 30 miles of little-used railroad.

No matter what, in this day and age it is pretty inexcusable to keep a line closed for three days (and counting) after a snowstorm, that, while big, was no record breaker. Will they wait until spring to repopen the line? Couldn't they at least try to get the railroad open up to Riverhead?