Silverliner Vs Out of Service - Technical Topics

The picture in the link relating to the main picture and properly rotated

Equalizer is not welded to Journal block it sits on top of it.

This is great discussion of the faults!!

For those who follow industry affairs as a hobby, and even those of us who are/have been in the industry, but not versed in mechanical affairs, this is great.

I thank all who have contributed their expertise allowing us within the laity to better understand the matter.

Finally to Denver RTD: consider that your equipment will have to address these same issues, but that your common vendor with SEPTA will be obliged to order sufficient parts from a fabricator to meet your needs as cars are periodically cycled for maintenance, and you will not have to address the "crisis" confronting SEPTA.

DutchRailnut wrote:Equalizer is not welded to Journal block it sits on top of it.

You're correct. The text was cut in the drawing and I meant to add in that there is a piece of metal that is welded to the beam that rests on the journal. Haste makes waste!

Thanks Roadmaster and Dutch. So the "third photo" in the link should be rotated 90 degrees clockwise to get the right orientation. I bet the reporter who put in on the site didn't know that! Then the brown piece top and right is the sideframe, the equalizer is the brown piece underneath the sideframe (coming in from the right) and the gray/silver at the bottom and near the top left is just the floor or clear area where you can see through the truck.
I was confused by the caption on the 3rd photo of the earlier link that said "The crack can be seen at the place where the equalizer bar curves up to fit over the axle in this photo", because you can't see the region where it curves up in this photo. It makes more sense in the 2nd photo - the red dot which the equalizer fractured - which is where you can see the equalizer turning up and then disappearing behind the sideframe. And this location for cracks is different (at least to me) than the one in Roadmaster's figure. (I would trust Roadmaster, and not phillymag.com !)

Where is the location where the equalizer is welded to this piece of metal (the bearing plate?) that actually sits on the journal? Can you see the weld and extra piece of metal in the 3rd picture and Roadmasters figure?

Sorry to be a pest with questions. JIm S

Denver is also operating almost entirely on brand-new track that's probably a far cry above SEPTA's maintenance standards. So while they're probably considering exactly what to do right now, I agree with Mr. Norman - Denver just has a preventative maintenance issue to deal with, not a crisis.

AFAIK, Denver uses a different truck design that is not prone to this issue.

pumpers wrote:Thanks Roadmaster and Dutch. So the "third photo" in the link should be rotated 90 degrees clockwise to get the right orientation. I bet the reporter who put in on the site didn't know that! Then the brown piece top and right is the sideframe, the equalizer is the brown piece underneath the sideframe (coming in from the right) and the gray/silver at the bottom and near the top left is just the floor or clear area where you can see through the truck.
I was confused by the caption on the 3rd photo of the earlier link that said "The crack can be seen at the place where the equalizer bar curves up to fit over the axle in this photo", because you can't see the region where it curves up in this photo. It makes more sense in the 2nd photo - the red dot which the equalizer fractured - which is where you can see the equalizer turning up and then disappearing behind the sideframe. And this location for cracks is different (at least to me) than the one in Roadmaster's figure. (I would trust Roadmaster, and not phillymag.com !)

Where is the location where the equalizer is welded to this piece of metal (the bearing plate?) that actually sits on the journal? Can you see the weld and extra piece of metal in the 3rd picture and Roadmasters figure?

Sorry to be a pest with questions. JIm S

My understanding is the equalizer bar sits in a seat that's welded to the top of the journal (which thusly keeps the bar neatly in its proper place).

It's apparently the interaction with this seat where the fracture occurred.

You can see in the picture, the part of the bar that sits on the seat is visible on the left-hand side, and is missing completely in the right-hand side.

Apparently when it fractured, the journal slammed upwards to the top of the slot in the truck it rides up/down in, which was all that kept the car from tipping over (similar to a shock blowout, it jumped to end-of-travel and stuck there). Rather surprising nobody noticed or felt it happen.

roadmaster wrote:

SEPTA_PIC.jpg

The picture in the link relating to the main picture and properly rotated

I am not sure the area that has been circled is actually the actual crack. I have attached an image of US Patent US2558709 A, for a wear shoe for railroad equalizer truck frames. The patent drawing shows that the notches seen in the pictures should be there. On the right side of the picture, that shows the whole truck, possibly the whole tab of the equalizer bar is either missing or pushed up into the truck frame since the frame is propped up on a block of wood. Hard to tell. For us techies, I'm an electrical engineer but I'm a closet mechanical one, it would be nice at some point to see just the equalizer bar laid out flat without the frame. Even a good and damaged one would be nice.

JoeD

Hey good research on that patent. I heard an engineer on WHYY yesterday give some facts. The EQ bars are cut from plate with welded end pieces. He said it was the cheap way to go, instead of casting and forging (in which case it would have been 35% lighter and had no welding necessary except for repairing wear on the semi cylindrical alignment feature which locates the bar on the journals).
This was supposedly a "green" company Septa got the cars from. I question this with the shoddy construction used-saving 1000lb. would have payoffs in efficiency and the extra 10,000lb added for crashworthiness would have been a bit less also.
Septa has mostly welded rails in the system so the EQ isn't getting the clickety-clack beating.
Joe you're right, photos of where the damage is occurring would help us armchair enthusiasts but we come in 2nd.
Good idea Alex, some are annoyed with all this tech talk I think.

dieciduej wrote:I am not sure the area that has been circled is actually the actual crack... JoeD

Ditto.

dieciduej wrote: I'm an electrical engineer but I'm a closet mechanical one... JoeD

Ditto

dieciduej wrote: I it would be nice at some point to see just the equalizer bar laid out flat without the frame. Even a good and damaged one would be nice... JoeD

Ditto

AlexC wrote:I want to split up this thread into a TECHNICAL discussion and a SCHEDULE / SERVICE & other discussion.

Instead of yeah or nay, i'll just ask for any loud disagreements. Without objections, I'd do it late tonight or tomorrow night.

YES! I've been wanting to say this for the past few days!

Consider this to be a loud agreement

AlexC wrote:I want to split up this thread into a TECHNICAL discussion and a SCHEDULE / SERVICE & other discussion.

Count me as another Yes!

dieciduej wrote:

US 2558709 A.jpg

I am not sure the area that has been circled is actually the actual crack. I have attached an image of US Patent US2558709 A, for a wear shoe for railroad equalizer truck frames. The patent drawing shows that the notches seen in the pictures should be there. On the right side of the picture, that shows the whole truck, possibly the whole tab of the equalizer bar is either missing or pushed up into the truck frame since the frame is propped up on a block of wood. Hard to tell. For us techies, I'm an electrical engineer but I'm a closet mechanical one, it would be nice at some point to see just the equalizer bar laid out flat without the frame. Even a good and damaged one would be nice.

JoeD

Understand that the illustration in the US Patent is for someone's idea to fix a problem. Read the whole thing, in particular, this paragraph:

Railway car truck equalizer bars are used in conjunction with railway passenger cars in great numbers, there usually being two such bars necessary for each car truck and four for each car. These bars are relatively long and heavy and expensive, and because of the relatively great weights which they carry and their motion with respect to the surfaces on which they bear in frictional engagement, they must be frequently examined for dangerous wear, and. must often be replaced. Many serious efforts have been exerted to avoid the high replacement expense of these bars, but prior to this invention all these have been unsuccessful. One result of these efforts, by way of example, was the procedure of welding metal pieces to equalizer bars to replace the portions of the bars worn away in use. The failure of these welded additions to the equalizers to withstand for long the service imposed upon them has made them dangerous and uneconomical to use and may lead to regulations against the use of welded equalizer bars.

This, very likely, is the core of the problem.