Silver Star Downgrade and Diner Discussion

Near-all airlines (American, United, Delta, Southwest, Alaska, JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier = 95%+ market share) have had "no cash onboard" policies since around 2010.
If they can do without it, so can (and should) Amtrak.

We've seen that the supply chain & backhaul for getting stuff onboard and hauling it off again is just way too expensive, whether food&waste or cash&change.

Waste, weight, & logistics are expensive enough. That they may also invite petty theft is, well, probably no different from what convinced the Airlines that the costs and risks of handling cash exceed any possible lost sales (for boxed food, premium drinks, etc...basically the same stuff we're talking about here).

And frankly, if you haven't seen the Delta Flight Fuel menu, you need to. It is the future of food service, as far as I'm concerned:
https://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta ... Nov_17.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Arlington wrote:Near-all airlines (American, United, Delta, Southwest, Alaska, JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier = 95%+ market share) have had "no cash onboard" policies since around 2010.
If they can do without it, so can (and should) Amtrak.

Maybe its because the persons who take the train are different clientele ?

east point wrote:Maybe its because the persons who take the train are different clientele ?

How different?

A 2016 Gallup poll also found that far fewer Americans are using cash than five years previously. Only 10 percent reported using cash for all their purchases [in 2016], down from 19 percent in 2011.

So the airlines went "no cash" at a time (2010) when perhaps 20% of consumers used cash for all purchases. By 2016 we were down to 10% being cash only. By 2017 or 2018, we're probably looking at 8% being "cash only".

If we're making sweeping "train riders are different" generalizations, I'd guess that the "cash-only" demographic is probably more likely to be packing food anyway.

The MBTA's next gen bus-and-train fare system will join that of Chicago, London & others in going cashless too. Megabus is also a no-cash carrier. Between Air, Megabus, & Bus and Rail Transit, you have a serious cross section of transportation telling their customers (a serious cross section of American life), that cash isn't worth the trouble.

Going cashless might cost, about 8% of 2018 sales if 100% of no-cash people fail to buy, but probably less, as cash-only travelers may still be traveling with a card-capable companion. I'd hypothesize that they'd either find a way to pay, or pack a lunch, or buy at/near a station. Either way, I don't see losing ridership or even rider satisfaction over it.

Meanwhile, this thread has amply demonstrated that cash is no longer the lowest risk, lowest-cost way of accepting payment:
- Cash facilitates some level of employee food fraud
- Cashless would facilitate pay-by-app / order-from-wifi (reducing point of sale staff needs, as we also see with fast food and transit apps)
- Cash facilitates some level of employee cash pilfering
- Cash imposes expensive "counting house" and "secure logistics" costs

east point wrote:

Arlington wrote:Near-all airlines (American, United, Delta, Southwest, Alaska, JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier = 95%+ market share) have had "no cash onboard" policies since around 2010.
If they can do without it, so can (and should) Amtrak.

Maybe its because the persons who take the train are different clientele ?

this is very true. megabus does not have on board food offerings and neither does greyhound for that matter. airlines do not employ separate flight attendants to sell food.

For the most part, Amish abstain from flying, though certain groups of Amish do permit it. Also, most Amish do allow air travel in extraordinary situations.

http://amishamerica.com/can-amish-fly/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the central valley in CA also has higher rates of cash. Amtrak is, in fact, different than airlines. I also suspect cash isn't the problem and that if Amtrak eliminates cash its food service results will not improve substantially.

Suburban Station wrote:megabus does not have on board food offerings and neither does greyhound for that matter. airlines do not employ separate flight attendants to sell food.

This doesn't necessarily cut in cash's favor. Megabus is so anti-cash they won't even sell you a ticket for it, onboard food or no. They've staked out an even more anti-cash position than I'm proposing and have made it work. That's evidence for "no cash"

Whether the Café/Food staff has other roles, the question is still one of employee productivity and theft in handling cash (could the Café open at BOS instead of RTE if the attendant could spend less time setting up shop, or if app-ordering could begin in anticipation ?)

Finally, if selected routes demanded it (and States were willing to be business partners in the potential costs), I don't see why some routes, particularly isolated ones (Downeaster) or with large cash clienteles (Keystone/PA, & San Joaquin/CA, Illinois) couldn't keep cash, while the systemwide policy was still "no cash".

Arlington wrote:
And frankly, if you haven't seen the Delta Flight Fuel menu, you need to. It is the future of food service, as far as I'm concerned:
https://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta ... Nov_17.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not as far as I am concerned. That menu is stuff sold to coach passengers.

Every legacy airline is now putting significant effort and expense to improving food and beverages for first and business classes (even though, unlike on Amtrak, most domestic first-class upgrades are given away for free to frequent customers), which is more relevant for Amtrak sleeping car passengers.

My last flights (in first class on American) had very nice meals, served on china, and dinner was 3 courses, with unlimited drinks. Further, the Admirals Clubs now even have a chef in them in the afternoon, making (of all things) guacamole, to add to a wide range of good food that's available.

My view: sell things like the Delta Flight Fuel menu in the cafe car, but if Amtrak is going to offer a "first class", at high prices, it needs to offer a first-class product in order to justify the high ticket prices that it charges. Considering how high some fares on the Crescent are, I'm surprised that people pay them, considering the quality of the trip.

Amtrak could simply put up signs stating they prefer to be paid by card. Many customers seem to think a business prefers to be paid cash, (unless it is heading for the owners back pocket , most prefer debit cards), we found simply having a sign saying we preferred Eftpos, changed customers behavior. It won't eliminate the problem entirely, but will reduce it significantly, for little cost.

We've rehashed the credit-cash debate on here a few times now. While the conjecture is that perhaps some of Amtrak's passengers don't like credit cards, there is an easy way to figure this out: what percentage of passengers buy tickets online. You can't stick (5) $100 bills into your computer and get a ticket out the printer. You have to have a credit card. Same with On-track ticket machines.

I can't find much after brief searching, other than this article that suggests in 2011 that 90% of Amtrak tickets were e-tickets. I don't know if that directly correlates to credit card sales, but it might be close.

http://www.elliott.org/blog/amtrak-is-a ... g-in-2011/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps Gokeefe has a thought here, or some inside info?

My experience from riding frequently is that there's hardly a place to buy tickets with cash anymore. CUS only has three ticket windows anymore.

Also, credit-only has other options:

1. Buy visa gift card from Duane Reed, Walgreens, CVS at major terminals or in any town in America
2. Put a gift card machine dispensing only $10 cards on each train in the cafe
3. Allow ticket buyers to "add cash" to their ticket that is then stored in a POS system that is only usable at the cafe car on that trip, and the ticket becomes a bit like a debit card.

David Benton wrote:Amtrak could simply put up signs stating they prefer to be paid by card.

Amtrak pretty much does this right now by offering you 3 points for every dollar you spend using your Amtrak Rewards Card.

Red Wing wrote: Amtrak pretty much does this right now by offering you 3 points for every dollar you spend using your Amtrak Rewards Card.

That's only for AGR cardmembers. I dropped that when they moved to BoA (I don't like them). So, for casual riders and those of us who use other credit cards, I've still used cash because I thought it was preferred. A sign would definitely be helpful if cash is not preferred.

hs3730 wrote:

Red Wing wrote: Amtrak pretty much does this right now by offering you 3 points for every dollar you spend using your Amtrak Rewards Card.

That's only for AGR cardmembers. I dropped that when they moved to BoA (I don't like them). So, for casual riders and those of us who use other credit cards, I've still used cash because I thought it was preferred. A sign would definitely be helpful if cash is not preferred.

My experience running a retail shop is that is a common perception for customers to have. Even to the point of having had customers go to the bank to get 1000's in cash, only for us to have to go back to the bank to deposit it . and pay for the privilege if it is over our cash limit.

Does Amtrak accept Dunkin’ Donuts electronic pay now that it serves DD coffee? (Guessing not - I don’t believe the Amcafes are actually DD branded - but worth double-checking.)

They don't.

gokeefe wrote:They don't.

Thanks.

They don’t serve any other Dunkin’ brand food or beverages either, do they? Just hot coffee? Still thinking about what cafe options Amtrak could offer (not that I want to buy a donut “fresh” from New York when I’m waking up in Florida)

Coffee only. I was hoping they would have DD iced tea but they don't.