Silver Star Downgrade and Diner Discussion

Southern railroad is correct. The ratio of revenue cars to non revenue is way too high. Non Rev is baggage, sleeper space for crew, lounge, and partially non rev diner ( very fluid number ) If there is enough passengers then diner staff can be increased to serve more passengers. Then maybe diner can operate 0530 - 2200 serving any time but can still have reservations for supper. Food loses up but fixed operating cost of pulling diner will stay approximately same.
Higher sales might keep F & B loses same but spread over many more customers. This plan will require restocking of Crescent, Florida, & Cardinal at some contract location.

David Benton wrote:Its possible the dining car staff are still been charged to the Silver Star, I doubt they have been laid off for 6 months.
i think fuel costs are only 10 -15 % of total costs.

I'm not smart enuff to find a current breakout of costs if such is published.
But page 24 of the PRIIA Performance Improvement Plan of the Cardinal itemized the 2010 costs of that train.
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/536/878/PRI ... al-PIP.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At the time, fuel was $0.9 million out of $21.9 million Total Direct and Shared Costs, so it seems diesel fuel was 4% of the Cardinal's total costs that year. (Plus $0.2 million for electric traction on the NEC portion of the route. Does that make any comparison too wacky? O.K. For the Hoosier State, fuel was $0.2 million out of $4.9 million Total Direct and Shared Costs, with $0.0 for electric traction, so it seems diesel fuel was 4% of the Hoosier State's costs that year.)

^ Thanks! So if all of traditional spike in August ratio was fuel for Florida daytime AC, I think that means we'd have expected Star costs to fall faster relative to the Meteor, too

Based on fuels low known share on other trains that Woody showed, I don't see how 30% drop in overall costs could have been fuel. I doubt all LD numbers at this point--had they been that much improved "for a reason" management would have talked more about it ( not just a passing mention) as a bright spot in a grim month

I love this forum, and really, really like its members

Yeoman work, gentlemen, yeoman work. I hope Amtrak is paying attention.

Though I like the numbers gymnastics, I do think especially the cost numbers simply bounce around too much to draw any conclusions from. It is however interesting that the Star's revenue has stayed the same, and that number I believe is consistent. So the point that the train's overall economy should be better stands, as the missing diner must lead to some cost savings, even if we have little idea how much.

But it is very hard to see whether the canceled diner is the only reason. Lack of capacity can be too, as the freed up staff rooms can sell at good value. Something which would not necessarily be true if there was spare sleepers to lengthen the train. Then the diner would maybe attract more customers for empty rooms instead. Another factor is that the price has been lowered, boosting the overall demand. So while some passengers have been pushed to the Meteor paying high prices for increasingly sought after rooms there, probably some new or previous coach passengers have sprung for the now cheaper rooms on the Star. So it is as much a pricing experiment as a diner experiment and they are very hard to separate.

As for the costs, fuel is too small a part of them to have any major impact despite the price fluctuations. As for the generally lower costs for the LD's, I have no idea why, but it smells a bit fishy. Especially because costs per seat mile systemwide has stayed flat. If anything August should be an expensive month because I belive Amtrak uses at least some holiday temps.

The other angle this points to here is that Amtrak could upgrade their foodservice offerrings in the Amfleet cafe cars throughout their system to something more akin to the Acela and probably come out ahead yet again while providing improved options to customers who aren't hooked on the necessity of dining cars.

Ultimately that's what this really comes down to, a gastronomic preference for cooked meals, table service and overall higher quality dining experience. This is probably where Amtrak should let Pullman Rail Journeys takeover and allow them to "do it right".

It appears Amtrak had no choice but to down grade the Star. According to Railpace mag there were 7 downgrades / substitution delays to east coast trains due to Heritage diner failures. All between Aug 1 and Aug 16. One was 80 MPH limitation on the NEC due to rough riding.
The 4 (?) additional spares not enough assuming all are still available.

This has been pretty much the working theory for most of us, the lack of diners.

The old stuff is really dying. Surprise surprise.

So how are they restoring things in a few months?

bostontrainguy wrote:So how are they restoring things in a few months?

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the "experiment" continues. My guess is they were hoping to have at least 2 or more of the ViewDiners ready by now.

But it seems like they're not coming soon.

A non scientific WAG. Based on deliveries of the baggage car so far this year the last of the bags may be delivered to Amtrak about Dec 18th. 3 diners in Jan ? testing and acceptance at Hialeah may take thru FEB ? Maybe the Heritage diners can be stretched thru MARCH ?

If diners are in such short supply, why would they withdraw the prototype viewdiner?

David Benton wrote:If diners are in such short supply, why would they withdraw the prototype viewdiner?

Because it is a non-conforming, non-standard piece of equipment with specialized maintenance requirements. Even more expensive to maintain than the Heritage Diners because it is essentially a "one-off". I would imagine that as part of the preparation for the new fleet they are trying to eliminate non-conforming equipment, parts and configurations. Very good time to withdraw it from service, even if there is a bit of an ongoing shortage. I like that Amtrak is prioritizing logistics and operational efficiency.

On the Boston section of the Lakeshore Limited there's no diner. Twice I have seen them load meals at Albany, nuke them in the cafe and serve hot. These take out meals are just fine. Could this strategy be used elsewhere?

Jehochman wrote:On the Boston section of the Lakeshore Limited there's no diner. Twice I have seen them load meals at Albany, nuke them in the cafe and serve hot. These take out meals are just fine. Could this strategy be used elsewhere?

Yes, if they can create a decent "Room Service" for the sleepers they could turn this lemon into lemonade. Room Attendant gets the tips too.