SEPTA seeks $$ for major West Trenton Line Help

The yard is going to move?
Why can't everyone use compatible equipment so these problems don't come up?

Wingnut wrote: That's the pretty much the game plan as I understand it. Basically the SEPTA yard and the CSX through tracks will be trading places. CSX will have reverse curves instead of straight track through this area when it's all done. Whether they'll be eased enough to avoid a speed restriction, that I don't know.

Wingnut, thanks for the update. Glad to see that maybe common sense might prevail.

Related, does anyone know the CSX speed limit through WT?
JS

bikentransit wrote:The yard is going to move?
Why can't everyone use compatible equipment so these problems don't come up?

My unprofessional guess is that the whole yard won't move, it will be more like just moving the easternmost yard track or 2 to the west side of the yard where the main tracks are now.
Also, besides the compatibility, the real issue is that SETPA and CSX want to get out of each others hair. They don't like to stop and wait for each other. Somebody does the dispatching and calls the shots so one is at the will of the other. And even if that is perfectly coordinated one train can break down and block the other. And there are related issues like who causes how much wear and tear, different best infrastructure requirements for transit and freight, etc. JS

Running the freight track around the yard is a good idea that will keep the passenger freight separation they want. If you look on goggle maps, there looks like plenty of room to do the reverse curves without a speed restriction for tight curves.

And maybe without losing a yard track since the old wye isn't needed.

Pretty exciting to see an actual "more than was there" infrastructure project, especially in SEPTAland. One question I have: how will west Trenton station be affected by this? I'm wondering if it become a single track station with no space for high platforms... Was around this area the other day and caught 2 CSX trains at the same time, one going west, one east. Would be a shame if the terminus & namesake never got high platforms, be it for freight clearance or simply super low priority.

TrainPhotos wrote:Pretty exciting to see an actual "more than was there" infrastructure project, especially in SEPTAland. One question I have: how will west Trenton station be affected by this? I'm wondering if it become a single track station with no space for high platforms... Was around this area the other day and caught 2 CSX trains at the same time, one going west, one east. Would be a shame if the terminus & namesake never got high platforms, be it for freight clearance or simply super low priority.

TP:

I do not think that West Trenton will get a high level platform - other then a ADA mini-high with a bridge plate
or fold down edge (MBTA Commuter Rail uses this platform type at some stations) as long as CSX freight trains
continue to use both station tracks there - and I will add Yardley and Woodbourne to this list...

You must remember that West Trenton has a jurisdictional problem - you are outside PA and more then likely
NJDOT or NJ Transit will not fund these infrastructure improvements for a improved WT Station facility to serve
SEPTA commuters going towards Philadelphia...I see involvement here from NJ only if service to Bound Brook
and Newark via the Raritan Valley Line (the old "Wall Street" and "Crusader" route - which ended in the Summer
of 1981-through and late 1982-a single WT train) gets the go-ahead here - I believe that CSX wants NJT to fund
a second track between Bound Brook and West Trenton which is the big block in reviving this train service...

MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:

TrainPhotos wrote:Pretty exciting to see an actual "more than was there" infrastructure project, especially in SEPTAland. One question I have: how will west Trenton station be affected by this? I'm wondering if it become a single track station with no space for high platforms... Was around this area the other day and caught 2 CSX trains at the same time, one going west, one east. Would be a shame if the terminus & namesake never got high platforms, be it for freight clearance or simply super low priority.

TP:

I do not think that West Trenton will get a high level platform - other then a ADA mini-high with a bridge plate
or fold down edge (MBTA Commuter Rail uses this platform type at some stations) as long as CSX freight trains
continue to use both station tracks there - and I will add Yardley and Woodbourne to this list...

You must remember that West Trenton has a jurisdictional problem - you are outside PA and more then likely
NJDOT or NJ Transit will not fund these infrastructure improvements for a improved WT Station facility to serve
SEPTA commuters going towards Philadelphia...I see involvement here from NJ only if service to Bound Brook
and Newark via the Raritan Valley Line (the old "Wall Street" and "Crusader" route - which ended in the Summer
of 1981-through and late 1982-a single WT train) gets the go-ahead here - I believe that CSX wants NJT to fund
a second track between Bound Brook and West Trenton which is the big block in reviving this train service...

MACTRAXX

I see. Thank you for such an informative and prompt response. I suppose all we can do is see what time has in store for the west trenton line.

I took a jaunt out to Yardley yesterday to oversee the ongoing construction. Roughly 50% of the third track has been laid with ties and welded rail waiting to be put together elsewhere. So far nothing has been done with the highway crossings even though brand new track now lies on either side of most of them. New catenary insulators have been put in place but the wires have yet to be attached. Interestingly, they're big bell style insulators that look a lot more like the Reading's original design than the insulators SEPTA has been using in recent years. It also appears the wire will be placed lower than usual as it won't need to clear double stack trains.

All in all, work is still a few months from completion. If anyone has a burning desire to ride on the current #2 track, they should do so soon. Word of advice: Go on a weekday. On weekends northbound SEPTA trains normally use track 1 only north of Neshaminy Falls.

If total SEPTA/freight segregation is desired, a new connection between the CSX Trenton Line and the Morrisville Line will have to be built in a jughandle style across the tracks from the existing one. Any idea if that's another long term goal?

TrainPhotos wrote: I suppose all we can do is see what time has in store for the west trenton line.

For the 9+ years this subject has been kicking around on this bulletin board, that's an appropriate observation.
The people who claimed to have see "the plans" never divulged many details; now they don't talk at all. Neither does SEPTA.
The unanswered questions remain:
What will the track plan look like?
What will the stations look like; existing ones and maybe a future one?
How will this project affect SEPTA's goal of universal high-level platforms?
Why, with all the public funds involved, is it such a big secret?

westernfalls wrote:

TrainPhotos wrote: I suppose all we can do is see what time has in store for the west trenton line.

For the 9+ years this subject has been kicking around on this bulletin board, that's an appropriate observation.
The people who claimed to have see "the plans" never divulged many details; now they don't talk at all. Neither does SEPTA.
The unanswered questions remain:
What will the track plan look like?
What will the stations look like; existing ones and maybe a future one?
How will this project affect SEPTA's goal of universal high-level platforms?
Why, with all the public funds involved, is it such a big secret?

I'm pretty sure this is the layout still. I apologize if this was already posted.
http://cdn.patch.com/users/102383/2013/ ... 015c67.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's really being gained here? I see Yardley losing it's outbound platform and a new track between 2 stations only. How is the cost justified?

Nfot paying to load extra PTC equipment and losing seating for cabinets in several hundred MU cars & PP Locos / cabs to have a standardized fleet to WT.

NJT & Conrail can commingle PTC systems since there are less Diesel Locos & Cab cars to be equipped to standardize their fleet.

Based solely on that photo....It seems to me that a second bridge may indeed benefit the future development (read continuation and/or expansion)of this line. If they can justify FOUR new delaware bridges (burlington-bristol second span, scudder falls twin span, turnpike second span) for truck and automobile traffic, isnt it only fair that railroads get ONE? Of course i am an utter lay-person when it comes to railroad topics, so maybe there's more that i'm missing?.

Mercer County and Ewing Township are also looking to earmark funds to restore West Trenton Station as the move to re-zone the old GM plant into a housing community.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013 ... swick.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unless the station becomes "historic" renovation should include a high level platform to comply with ADA. Giving up the old outbound ROW to CSX should mean constructions costs will decrease by half, since only the inbound side of W. Trenton will see commuter train service.

NorthPennLimited wrote: Giving up the old outbound ROW to CSX should mean constructions costs will decrease by half, since only the inbound side of W. Trenton will see commuter train service.

Ha! that me laugh. We taxpayers should be so lucky. What state is Trenton in again? The politicians will not give up $$ easily since it is less to give out nice contracts to all their friends in the construction business (which they get back for campaign contributions...) .

In any case, this is all very exciting. Thank you Wingnut for the construction update. Things are happening on the ground fast. I read somewhere the wire train was working the other day at Trenton with new catenary (and maybe new poles(???? can't remember), but I didn't put 2 and 2 together.

Thank you to Push/Pull for that project diagram. Although I note it does't show the CSX bypass around the eastern side of the yard that we talked about recently, and so it still shows Trent interlocking controlled by SEPTA. Time will tell.

Regarding a comment about high level stations being limited by CSX wide loads -- that is the whole point of this. CSX and SEPTA will be separated and won't share tracks at all (except that crossover at Wood interlocking -- haven't heard any rumors at all about that jughandle to eliminate that - but as was posted earlier, when the CSX grade separation thru Philly is done, Wood interlocking will see much less CSX use anyway.

JS