Septa's Doomsday Budget 2013-2023

JeffK wrote:Bob, I didn't say I was in favor of a regional tax. A previous set of posts in the threads went down the path of "those who use it should pay for it"; I was pointing out that while a regional tax might blunt the rural-versus-urban divide it simply moves the dividing line unless it's handled very carefully. And a totally local cost focus through even higher fares and/or a congestion tax would likely end up as one of those infamous solutions that destroys what it's supposed to save.

Given today's political and economic realities there is NO good answer.

I happen TO be in favor of a regional tax. It would leave local decisions to local communities. But that train has 'left the station'

JeffK wrote:

25Hz wrote:If the gas tax was raised, even by a tiny bit, combined with an end to tax breaks for oil/gas/coal we would fix a lot of our budget issues.

Spot on. Pennsylvania is the only state that doesn't directly tax extracted natural gas. Corbett's risible argument is that the gas companies would go elsewhere - as if (a) there's some other state without a tax, and (b) even if (a) were true, PA's gas would somehow magically migrate there.

... if we got everything in a good state of repair, not only do we create jobs, but we improve quality of life for everyone.

Right again. SEPTA's situation is a perfect example of the fallacy of "saving" via deferred maintenance. The husband of one of my co-workers was a senior engineer on the Market Street El reconstruction project. His professional opinion was that if there had been money to keep the original structure in good repair it could have lasted till late in this century. Instead, SEPTA and PTC were so strapped for funds that they couldn't do much more than paint the trestles. Result: we taxpayers shelled out for a full rebuild about 80 years too early.

That made me laugh so hard.

Secondly, since earth crust can't really move whenever it pleases mid-plate, the argument is utterly invalid. The guy is a holdover from the robber barron era i swear.

Off topic but can anyone explain why I need to look at the Reading Eagle or the Allentown Morning Call to see actual information about this saga? The Inky doesn't seem as interested. I'm thinking they either don't want to show a Republican talking about a transportation funding plan (normally a Democratic ideal) or the Jersey-based ownership group doesn't care because it doesn't affect them. Either way this important issue is not making the amount of headlines in the Southeast's local papers the way it should.

http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/story/ ... orc-5GcGqB

The Pennsylvania state House is delivering a body blow to hopes for a major transportation spending proposal in a test vote that raises doubts about the measure's future.

The House voted 98-to-103 on Monday against a proposal to raise gasoline taxes and a host of motorist fees to spend billions on roads, bridges and mass transit systems.

Thanks for ruining my night. Oh well. I don't take SEPTA and live in a town under served by it. Of course my town is served by highways (which as we know are also underfunded). I imagine Corbett is done/finit/"out of here" as Harry Kalas would say for doing so little. My life will go on largely unaffected but I had much higher hopes for my community.

Well say goodbye to the Cynwyd line next year

I guess we will kiss our trolley , regional rail lines goodbye. See bridges fall and collapse , and never ever having a great transit system. Our economy is going to goto shits. Corbett kiss your second term goodbye. Your chance just died when they voted against it. I guess PA will be having mudslides all over. That other man Tom Wolf is running for governor and he believes in turning the state around he has my vote.

We shall see. Marylanders are moving north in record numbers because of PA's lower taxes. It's going to be a hard sell to those new voters for a candidate who wants to raise taxes, when you just uprooted your life to escape higher taxes.

After years and years of Philadelphia's failures, the transit system was a huge asset and bragging right. With any luck, Corbett is done and we will get a funding plan in 2015. I am the same party as the governor but after this failure I don't think I can vote for him. He did an absolutely horrible job of getting support from his own party, and support from across the aisle, on this. It was too little, too late.

Which is too bad, because like he said, failing infrastructure is not a Democratic or Republican issue. It affects all of us.

The Beverly Hillbillies finally launched the actual Doomsday Weapon that will destroy the SEPTA we know.

The next opportunity to save the system will be in the 2015 legislative session, but by then the 2014 and 2015 cuts will have already been made.

Cynwyd shuts down in 2014, along with Trolley Routes 10 & 15 being converted to buses

Media/Elwyn shuts down in 2015.

Keep in mind this also affects highways and bridges. Expect hundreds of additional bridges to earn new weight restrictions or worse.

Good thing i still have my passport and my luggage set to go.

Im going to miss PA and the US, but i need to be able to get around, and in hamilton i can do that, and better than here, and it's a much smaller city.

Pathetic.

The media is going to eat this alive. I can feel it. Does anyone think that by 2015 with the cuts already taken place ,that there will be a better chance ? . SEPTA & PAT aren't the only ones who lost. The whole state lost to this. I think the problem I feel is that they said they would stay and get it done. I feel they did not try and work hard enough to have a middle ground and was so focused on "NOT RAISING TAXES" but that's how America pays for stuff. No sense what's so ever.

Clearfield wrote:The Beverly Hillbillies finally launched the actual Doomsday Weapon that will destroy the SEPTA we know.

The next opportunity to save the system will be in the 2015 legislative session, but by then the 2014 and 2015 cuts will have already been made.

Cynwyd shuts down in 2014, along with Trolley Routes 10 & 15 being converted to buses

Media/Elwyn shuts down in 2015.

Keep in mind this also affects highways and bridges. Expect hundreds of additional bridges to earn new weight restrictions or worse.

will these trolley lines be bustituted or simply discontinued? i fail to see the cost savings by putting diesel buses on them.

jtaeffner wrote:

Clearfield wrote:The Beverly Hillbillies finally launched the actual Doomsday Weapon that will destroy the SEPTA we know.

The next opportunity to save the system will be in the 2015 legislative session, but by then the 2014 and 2015 cuts will have already been made.

Cynwyd shuts down in 2014, along with Trolley Routes 10 & 15 being converted to buses

Media/Elwyn shuts down in 2015.

Keep in mind this also affects highways and bridges. Expect hundreds of additional bridges to earn new weight restrictions or worse.

will these trolley lines be bustituted or simply discontinued? i fail to see the cost savings by putting diesel buses on them.

Bustituted. And with the plan now to shutter Cynwyd and Media/Elwyn, SEPTA can new appropriately avoid installing PTC on them.

If money becomes available to restore them in 2015, they won't be usable without PTC so kiss them both goodbye forever.

I can only imagine what Joe Casey is feeling right now. I know he feels horrible about this and to cut service and affect the riders Is going to be heavy on him. Who is the next governor running ?