SEPTA "LOST"--The south concourse episode

Didn't one of those used to be the old tunnel for the El?

Is the fire the reason it is not used, or was it out of service before the fire?

Old Timer told me they stopped using it when the EL was rerouted under city hall and the trolleys were moved to make way. With the trolley station moved this passenger tunnel wasn't needed anymore.

It's pretty much a tunnel to nowhere now.

edit

Biloby I can't answer your question, don't even
know where exactly you're talking about ...but!
Thanks for resurrecting this old thread. That's cool
and the photos (including yours) are great. Now let
me take advantage of this revived topic to ask a
question I've long wondered about-

In many Philadelphia guide books they mention the
"underground Philly" in Center City. That you can
use underground passageways to walk from Suburban
Station all the way over to Market East (formerly the
Reading Terminal). On a couple visits to Philadelphia
I tried it. Starting at Suburban Station I got as far as
(I guess what you'd call) the "rotunda entrance" on
the west side of City Hall. But no further.

A former Center City resident from the early 1970s
told me back then you could indeed go from
Suburban to Reading Terminal by underground
passageways. (I think I tried the reverse -- from
Market East to Suburban Station -- but couldn't find
a way out of Market East.) And possibly all the way
east to an entrance to the Market St station of the
Ridge St spur off the BSL.

Anyone of you learned Philadelphians in the group
know the history here???

Actually you can still do it. From the 11th St. Entrance (the one that'll put you right there at the Westbound MFSE turnstiles, walk up to the free crossover and to the other side. Turn right, and keep walking west, past 13th St., 2733, 1234 Market, and Wanamakers. You'll come to an intersection. Make a left, following the signs for the South Broad Concourse. When you get to where the South Penn BSL booth was, go around and keep walking past the Employee Entrance for the Ritz Carlton. The hall makes a right turn and goes uphill to another intersection, directly under the fountain in the middle of Dilworth Plaza. From here you can turn left and continue to the Clothespin and the 15th St. MFSE fare control, or continue straight to the northern part of Dilworth (I'm continuing north.) You'll walk by the exit turnstiles for 15th St. SSL-East, both platforms for 15th St. MFSE, and the City Hall South BSL. City Hall North you have to walk down. As soon as you come up on the waterfall, hang a left and follow that walkway to the ramp and stairs to both 15th St. SSL-West and the Main Concourse for Suburban Station. Continuing straight, you'll get to the access walkway to the Municipal Services Building. Getting back, once you go down that short flight, walk past the Post Office and the Sales Office and walk through the double doors to get to Suburban proper. Make a easy right at the Dunkin Donuts and don't stop til you see the tiny courtyard that nobody is still not allowed into. Make another easy left at the Card shop and walk past the Passenger Service Offices and the Main schedule racks (which I swear is the MOST WELL STOCKED ANYWHERE) making a bee line to the newsstand on the far side of the concourse. Once you get past the 17th St. exit, bear left slightly and you'll be rewarded with the 18th St. hallway, which will end our demonstration of "How to Travel In Center City and Not To Be Seen."

I remember walking the concourse from Reading Terminal directly to the platform level at Suburban. That link was severed when the CCCT was built, but remnants are still visible at the east end.

redarrow5591 wrote: Actually you can still do it.

Now that's what I'm talkin 'bout!! Thanks redarrow.

redarrow5591 wrote: The hall makes a right turn and goes uphill to another intersection, directly under
the fountain in the middle of Dilworth Plaza.

I think this was where I lost the 'trail' the first couple times. As I remember, the first time was
about three years ago (and I was coming the opposite way, from Suburban), I couldn't decide
which turn to take. So I gave up and ascended the spiral stairway up to what I guess is Dilworth Plaza.
The other time (in 2006) I must've made a wrong turn somewhere coming from Suburban. I wound up at a
deadend. Only an exit available (to 15th St., just south of Market I think).

Now there is the question, why would anyone want to do this? Well, the obvious reason, the enjoyment
of exploring a new city, especially rail/transit related facilities. Seeing something many native Philadelphians
have never even seen. But also unlike the Fox TV show, it almost always rains in Philadelphia (at least
one day) when I visit. So being able to walk from 18th and Kennedy to Market East under cover is pretty cool.

redarrow I'm copying your directions to a word file and will retrieve on my next visit. (I live in NY suburbs.) Hopefully around April.

Tommy Meehan wrote:

redarrow5591 wrote: Actually you can still do it.

Now that's what I'm talkin 'bout!! Thanks redarrow.

redarrow5591 wrote: The hall makes a right turn and goes uphill to another intersection, directly under
the fountain in the middle of Dilworth Plaza.

I think this was where I lost the 'trail' the first couple times. As I remember, the first time was
about three years ago (and I was coming the opposite way, from Suburban), I couldn't decide
which turn to take. So I gave up and ascended the spiral stairway up to what I guess is Dilworth Plaza.
The other time (in 2006) I must've made a wrong turn somewhere coming from Suburban. I wound up at a
deadend. Only an exit available (to 15th St., just south of Market I think).

Now there is the question, why would anyone want to do this? Well, the obvious reason, the enjoyment
of exploring a new city, especially rail/transit related facilities. Seeing something many native Philadelphians
have never even seen. But also unlike the Fox TV show, it almost always rains in Philadelphia (at least
one day) when I visit. So being able to walk from 18th and Kennedy to Market East under cover is pretty cool.

redarrow I'm copying your directions to a word file and will retrieve on my next visit. (I live in NY suburbs.) Hopefully around April.

Shoot me a PM and I'll see if I'm off.

A lot of people still walk from suburban station as far east as the gallery, though usually it's only when it is cold or rainy.

There is a passenger walkway from race/vine station on the BSL to the municipal services building but it is closed.

I see the underground connections as a great opportunity, IF anyone could bring everything together so they aren't such a bunch of rodent burrows.

If you've ever been to Montréal, there's a fantastic set of connections between buildings, shopping, and transit at many major stations. Called Complexes, they're clean, well-lighted, and filled with stores and amenities - almost an underground reflection of the city above. New construction is almost always hooked into a Complex somewhere, so you have the option of going right from your train to work or shopping. Yet when construction started booming west of Suburban Station, there was essentially no thought given to doing anything even minimally similar here.

Admittedly Canadian weather provides a powerful incentive to build down rather than up and out, but surely Philadelphia could treat the concourses as assets instead of trash dumps.

RA and JK: I will second both of you on your directions in the CCP concourses-I do just that type of walking myself from time to time. A good example was my long walk yesterday evening-from the Surburban Station area to just E of the 12-13 Locust station walking to TJU to attend the NRHS meeting for the PHL chapter using part of that described route. In that area W of the Ritz Carlton Hotel there is at least one 70s era SEPTA rail map posted in there.

As for timetable racks the Suburban Station racks are usually well stocked-also there are some NJT and DART schedules available in the Passenger Service Office along with CCP maps and other brochures but I will give the nod to the rack in the 1234 Market building lobby across from the SEPTA Transit Museum Store-they sometimes have SEPTA info not available anyplace else.

I feel you are right about CCP's concoures-I have been in the ones in Montreal and Toronto and the Philly concourses in comparison are treated-especially in the subway areas-as places of less importance and suffering from some neglect-to the City.
Yes-they do come in handy in bad weather. MACTRAXX

thanks for the complements mr meehan..

I would like to contribute another South Concourse possiblity. At least 40 years ago, I remember walking with my Father from Suburban Station around City Hall to around 8th and Market streets all underground and all along the south side of the MFL. I remember that the major stores ( Wanamakers, Gimbels etc) had subway level entrances and I remember there being a railroad/hobby shop toward the eastern end of this concourse. I was young, but I do recall the interconnected MFL stations via a walking concourse. It was, as I write, a long time ago and my memory might be faulty. I hope that this helps.
Septa Fan

No memory problems there. I too remember going into town with my parents to go shopping at the "big stores". You can still see the Wanamaker entrance around 13th Street. IIRC it was one of the last store entrances to remain open, except of course for the Gallery connections. By contrast, in Toronto and Montreal that sort of access is expected / demanded, rather than being treated as an annoyance.

<plug>- biloby - try switching to Firefox if you haven't already. In addition to being Not-Microsoft, it has a halfway-decent spelling checker built in. It's saved me from a lot (vs. "alot") of mistakes (vs. "misteaks"), LOL!</plug>