Sen. Martins blasts MTA on refunds

Sen. Jack Martins (R-Mineola) is holding a news conference today about a pesky Long Island Rail Road practice. Here is his description:

Beginning December 30, the MTA has imposed a $10 “processing fee” on refunds for Long Island Railroad tickets that customers purchase but don’t use. Senator Jack M. Martins was recently contacted by a constituent who purchased a railroad ticket for $7.50, which was not used. However, when the LIRR customer tried to get a refund, she was told that there was a $10 processing fee, which is more than the cost of the ticket.* This processing fee is yet one more gimmick by the MTA to pass on costs to the customers who have already had to bear the burden of increased tickets prices and service cuts.

If that wasn’t enough, local businesses, municipalities and school districts
have also been hit with a payroll tax to support the MTA. The MTA has showed that it has no problem taking money but refuses to refund it when the service is not used. Senator Martins plans on calling for the elimination of this “processing fee” as he brings attention to yet another injustice by the MTA.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/poli ... -1.2663751

Sen. Jack Martins (R-Mineola) must be a bit sloooooww, It took him weeks to get complaint from a constituent while entire rules were explained in Media.
For days newspapers coverd this but now Sen. Jack Martins (R-Mineola) made a big discovery ?????
Welcome to real world Sen. Jack Martins (R-Mineola)

In all fairness to the senator, he probably had no knowledge of this policy until it was brought to his attention. At one time the MTA had a motto which read more or less: "Our business is moving people, trains and buses are our tools". I think their motto and policy today is "The public be damned". They are a monopoly and they don't seem to care.
During my time on the railroad we did not have everything, the railroad was broke for years. We were told to "do the best you can" and we did. The MTA isn't even trying to do their best.
The senator might have had his mind on other more pressing problems in New York State and I think they have plenty of problems these days.
Noel Weaver

More political bluster.

When the collection rates for short riders on board dropped below the 75% mark, the railroad noted that most of the refunded tickets were actually used, just no collected. This policy solved that problem.

Understandable tool, however wouldn't the correct answer would to make sure the trainmen do their jobs, not penalize the VC's? At this point i think a repeal of the on-board service charge is called for, since I have to purchase tickets at my own peril...

Edited for punctuation...

You're not thinking like a socialist politician.

The railroad's response to a problem is usually the one that is easiest to implement.

Remember, this is a government organization with absolutely no financial oversight, and rhetoric notwithstanding, convenience to the passengers seldom enters into the decision making picture at the MTA.

If it did, and if the doctrine of public trust or obligation to the taxpayer did, the place would probably be making money.

Tool and 6009: This topic makes me wonder how things would be if the LIRR/MNCR had a ticket policy similar to NJT as I have mentioned previously of tickets being good until used and not refundable...

I noticed right from the start that a stand-alone ticket with a value of $10 or less would become non-refundable...

I now wonder if the current 14 day ticket validity period is actually too short as I believe it is...it goes against the trend used by most other commuter rail carriers...

I do think that they needed to curb the abuse of the previous refund policy that was occurring but I feel that the MTA should have opted for a rider-friendly approach in some manner...

Thoughts from MACTRAXX

Mac, the 14 day policy is WAY too short but what bothers me is the $10.00. I understand a few abusing the refund policy, however at what point does it become a systemic problem on the part of the trainmen? Dont get me wrong, I understand that from time to time situations arise that may preclude a conductor, or collector from collecting the fare. However when a single person can ride both ways for up to 10 days, on the same ticket, between two major points (lets say Jamaica and Hicksville(without hiding or running away from the trainmen)), there is a breakdown in enforcement of duties... There is no excuse for that,and the customer shouldn't be paying for that (fare-wise or tax-wise). If you owned a store, and the cashiers and guards you hired cant be bothered to stand at the post you PAY them to, why would you blame the shoplifter?

You didn't read my reply, did you. Most commuters don't want answers or explanations. But they ask "why" anyway.

This is why the MTA is investing millions to automate fare collection. That will greatly increase compliance and then perhaps permit a more liberal refund policy.

No I did, Its just that the truth can be hard to swallow...when its ridiculous.

LongIslandTool wrote:More political bluster.

When the collection rates for short riders on board dropped below the 75% mark, the railroad noted that most of the refunded tickets were actually used, just no collected. This policy solved that problem.

How do you prove a ticket was used and not collected?

Well one way Ive seen is:
Reason for refund: Not Collected
What can I say people are stupid... I'm sure they have had people buy tix just before the train and then refund them when they get off...

Edited for spelling.

I can tell you that ticket inspections on the trains I take are infrequent (especially with all the service disruptions this winter)

As a matter of fact, I am debating about buying a 10-trip instead of a monthly ticket for the month of March

Commuter X

The new fare policy is rather draconian. I work for the LIRR , I cannot tell you how many times I have refunded a OW or RT at the customers final destination ie: Jamaica,Flatbush , and Penn. The reality is the bad apples ruined the refund policy for everyone. The employees dislike the policy too, hopefully it will change , at least to something like NJT's policy with no expiration. Customers should realize , we the frontline employees want to help and do not make policy. Complain,complain, complain, but to public affairs and the MTA.

The railroad is pretty sophisticated at all this stuff, and while they chose to work on simply eliminating the problem, they track fare collection exceptions fairly well. Along with the LIRR, the MTA's Inspector General and State Police have a department that handles this.

The MTA has a good number of spotters on the trains. There are LOTS of them. They hire them through a temporary agency and are generally unemployed people working by the day. On any day there might be 50-80 riding the trains. Using the data provided by them, a profile is made of each trainman and his collecting "habits". An average trainman is "examined" or "observed" perhaps twenty times in a year by these people.

Each trainman's cash reports are monitored -- that is they are recorded by train and assignment. So over a period of years, the railroad knows that Collector XXX usually sells XX tickets on Train XXX. Through this information, trainmen are graded as to their ticket SALES. Refunds are also recorded. Based on the location of the refund, the location and time of the sale, often some identification of the train on which the ticket was used can be made.

This information is combined with the observations data, and each man is graded. Those below a specific grade are suspected of theft, and are further monitored in many ways. They may even be watched by the IG or the MTA Police to determine when they leave and arrive home. GPS is used as well as EasyPass data. They may be "bated" by a spotter or an "informant trainman" who offers to "split" a charge. Very often a criminal investigation is opened and their credit card and phone records examined.

How the Company chooses to act on this information depends on many things. Right now it seems they are more interested in the big picture -- using the data to cut jobs and lobby for legislation and funds that will help them eliminate the on board positions.

All in all, the Company knows EXACTLY who does their job and who doesn't. Patterns develop over years and the Railroad has been dealing with this sort of thing for 175 years. There are few secrets out there and few things new under the sun when it comes to human behavior.