Sad Fate of Some Picture-Window PCC's

My friend Yvonne from Brooklyn took these shots on Saturday. They are what's left of that failed idea to set up a trolley line in Red Hook, Brooklyn. Puts things in perspective, doesn't it ? (3295 is lookin' pretty good all of a sudden.)

They look better off than the collection of a private individual in Buckeye Lake, Ohio who I understand passed away sometime in the last couple of years. He had amassed over 20 PCCs and other streetcars and interurbans and stored them out in the open in a field on his property. By the time of his passing most of them had gone long beyond any hope of rehabilitation. Several PCCs in the collection were so derelict their carbodies had lost structural integrity and were collapsing in on themselves, so the cars were scrapped in place. These Picture Window cars in Brooklyn, while indeed in rough shape, look relatively good in comparison, and although it seems prospects of them ever being restored to operation are slim, they're certainly still in good enough shape that they could potentially be cosmetically restored at the very least.

They have been sitting there for years, and recently yet another plan to revive service was determined to be a no-go. Bob Diamond actually had a bunch more PCC cars in the Navy Yard, I believe, that at one point disappeared. Anyway, here are my shots of them in May, 2009.

http://viewoftheblue.com/photography/redhook.html

Great photos Frank. I'll have to get over there soon. It's a veritable trolley museum ! He's got a lot of different PCC's there - Pullman-Standard's, St. Louie's, Picture-Windows, All-Electrics. In a few shots (the largest being Photo #8), it looks like he even has a San Francisco Muni St. Louie 1,000 - the last PCC streetcars to be built in the United States. Is that possible or is it from another city ? Anyone know ? It's a sad scene because on top of the fact that the streetcars are deteriorating, it's obvious that Diamond was serious about setting up his line. He even painted them in a New York green. I wonder what happened ?

off topic,
I see the Muni has sent a few of its old PCC's off to be re furbished. It looks like there adding a few more to their line.

3rdrail wrote:Is that possible or is it from another city ? Anyone know ?

That's actually an ex-Shaker Heights Rapid Transit car which was originally owned by Twin City Rapid Transit. Both the MUNI 1016-1040 series and the TCRT 300-419 series cars were widebody models from Saint Louis Car Co., which explains their similar appearance.

Mr. Diamond at one point owned 15 PCCs, as shown by this roster, which identifies three as Picture Windows and the remaining 12 as ex-TCRT/SHRT cars (which he acquired from Buffalo, who had bought them from SHRT and never used them). Sadly, 11 of the 12 TCRT cars went missing from the Brooklyn Navy Yard in 2005 after the streetcar operation was forced to cease and are presumed scrapped. The bottom of this page has a bit more on that.

Another sad note is that MBTA 3321, as seen in the pictures above, was the very last streetcar ever built by Pullman Standard. Hopefully something can be done to preserve it.

520 - Thank you for the info re: the Shaker Heights car. I thought that 3,000 miles might be a stretch for streetcar on a trailer...but I suppose that you never know ! As far as all that equipment missing. That's unbelieveable ! I suppose that the proximity to Upper NY Bay may have aided in their disappearance. What a tragedy ! They're all listed as "operational" on that roster ! Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that somebody may have used the excuse of collecting past due rent in arrears as a reason to steal them.

Actually, I believe there are just 3 left on the site, as it was when I was there. The track only goes a few hundred yards at best. Sort of lonely and isolated, but behind a very huge warehouse grocery store which is very popular in the area, and people enjoy hanging out back there along the waterfront.

Ineresting that those few weren't taken, but are in close proximity to the water. The missing ones may not have been taken for their steel after all. They may show up in Mexico or Egypt !

I am curious as to why the wartime PCCs were chosen for rehab and use on the Mattapan line. Why not the newer all-electrics or the picture window cars?

The best hope for those cars is likely at MUNI, where they could be become parts cars.

One of the reasons the wartimes were selected was their motor controller. The group of wartimes chosen were from the 3072-3096 and 3222-3271 group that used Westinghouse controllers, which the T preferred because they were much easier to maintain than the GE controllers used on all electrics and picture windows.

The all electrics were not liked by operators because of their electric friction brake releasing instantly, which meant rolling back on any uphill grade. They did not have a separate track brake rollback prevention switch, like that was added to the Boeing LRVs.

The picture windows, if they had Westinghouse controllers, may have been kept. They already had separate air compressors instead of constantly running off the motor generator and came with undercoated bodies to reduce noise and corrosion. The GE controllers used in them were a first generation version of a similar controller to be later used in the 01100 Orange line cars.

typesix wrote:The GE controllers used in them were a first generation version of a similar controller to be later used in the 01100 Orange Line cars.

That would be the MCM (Motorized Cam Magnetic) controller, used through the 1950s, also in NYCT on the R16s, R17, R21, R22 and the SEPTA M3 Almond Joys. MCM was notorious for being finicky and trouble-prone to a degree. In 1961 it would superceded by SCM (Single Cam Magnetic or Simplied Cam Magnetic).

The 01100's got the GE "Cineston" control which was an innovative device for it's time. It combined acceleration and braking, and had a deadman feature in which you had to keep the handle down on it's spring load, otherwise the car would brake. They were also installed on the PCC's that weren't PCC's- the San Francisco Type C "Magic Carpets". St. Louis Car Co. made up a car order for Muni that had some different controls than a PCC did such as the Cineston, so that Muni wouldn't have to pay royalties. At the time, Muni had a "no royalties" clause in their charter which was reversed after the war so that they could purchase full PCC's.

CTA also used the GE Cineston.