Route 23 to be split possibly

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PHILADELPHIA (CBS) — Septa may consider splitting its longest bus route in half. That idea is among a dozen possible tweaks that the regional transit agency is looking at, and the public got to weigh in today at an open house at Septa headquarters.

Under the proposed change, the northern portion of Route 23 would terminate in center city and then loop back to Chestnut Hill, while a newly named Route 45 bus would start in South Philadelphia and then loop around in center city.

This possibly kills any plans to bring trolleys back on the 23...

Why does it? Neither of the two routes go off the current routing. I'd be more worried if they extended the center city ends to a different location.

As I've said before, trolleys south of center city are pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point anyway. Even so, both new lines could easily be brought back as trolley.

I like the plan to extend the 53 along Hunting Park Ave. It's the only BSL station without a crosstown feeder.

I feel the bigger news is closing County Line on the NHSL. I question how much time could possibly be saved on a line that is almost all flag-stops and spends maybe 10-20 seconds at a stop.

For those wondering why the proposed north terminal of the 45 is at Noble Street, SEPTA originally wanted to go to Spring Garden, but there was nowhere to put a crew layover facility at Spring Garden, and the left turn from Spring Garden to 12th Street is prohibited (for good reason). Meanwhile, SEPTA inherited land at Noble Street from the RDG/Conrail (it's where the City Branch is transitioning from the trench to elevated), and there's plenty of empty curb space to park a bus.

As for County Line, SEPTA itself admits there's no time savings to be had by closing; the proposal is just to save money on maintaining the station itself. Villanova is pissed and I expect them to organize resistance.

County Line is very isolated without parking, but I have no idea where you would put any without moving the platform to the south side of the bridge.

CComMack wrote:For those wondering why the proposed north terminal of the 45 is at Noble Street, SEPTA originally wanted to go to Spring Garden, but there was nowhere to put a crew layover facility at Spring Garden, and the left turn from Spring Garden to 12th Street is prohibited (for good reason). Meanwhile, SEPTA inherited land at Noble Street from the RDG/Conrail (it's where the City Branch is transitioning from the trench to elevated), and there's plenty of empty curb space to park a bus

Swing it up Ridge to Fairmount to terminate somewhere near the Art Museum to create a half-crosstown feeder for Fairmount BSL. The commercial and residential density could support it.

Maybe run it west on Market to 30th or east to Front?

Just seems like an odd endpoint.

I'm also now wondering how many people now use the 23 from South Philly to Temple U. Might be insignificant, might not be.

zebrasepta wrote:This possibly kills any plans to bring trolleys back on the 23...

Not as much as the track removals performed last summer.

SCB2525 wrote:Just seems like an odd endpoint.

I agree, it is, but this is not a new point to point line being implemented but the splitting of a current route - so the operation conditions would take priority for establishing the new internal endpoints as CC pointed out. SG is the logical choice, but were to layover has to be established.

SCB2525 wrote:I'm also now wondering how many people now use the 23 from South Philly to Temple U. Might be insignificant, might not be.

Good point, I don't know the numbers, but it seems the ridership patterns justified this split, so I would assume the number of trips from South Philly to points north of CC (and vice versa) is very low.

SCB2525 wrote:I'm also now wondering how many people now use the 23 from South Philly to Temple U. Might be insignificant, might not be.

SCB and Evereryone:

When Route 45 begins operation run extended trips to the Temple University campus that can be scheduled to
meet demand for students now using the current Route 23 from South Philadelphia...These trips could serve the
Temple Regional Rail station and originate/terminate to connect with the Broad Street Line...

MACTRAXX

Perhaps the 45 could be routed into the city branch eventually. The 23 trolley is never coming back nor should it. The route is inadvisable as either a trolley or a bus. This is long overdue