Route 15

We're at $2.04 per gallon here in Maryland !

For diesel?

Diesel is even higher!

reldnahkram wrote:

jsc wrote:I like the sign in the back of the PCC advertising unleaded at 1.91/gal. Makes those trolleys seem a real bargin!

At the budget hearing in Media last night, the SEPTA rep said that the new diesel fuel contract they just took bids on came in at $1 a gallon, up from the 76 cents they're currently getting. Hopefully SEPTA considers more trolleys as operating buses just got a lot more expensive.

Well unfortunately, the fuel price/tax situation distorts the relative costs in favor of diesel buses and against electric rail. As the $1.00 price suggests, SEPTA is exempt from motor fuel taxes on the diesel and gasoline it uses, but there are no tax exemptions on electricity used by SEPTA for traction power and our utility costs and taxes are high around here.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:
Well unfortunately, the fuel price/tax situation distorts the relative costs in favor of diesel buses and against electric rail. As the $1.00 price suggests, SEPTA is exempt from motor fuel taxes on the diesel and gasoline it uses, but there are no tax exemptions on electricity used by SEPTA for traction power and our utility costs and taxes are high around here.

There's the first point to make in any political attempt to deal with SEPTA's costs/funding----- Ask the question why a government agency pays taxes (back to that same government) on electric power when it doesn't pay taxes on petrolium based fuel?

walt wrote:

Matthew Mitchell wrote:
Well unfortunately, the fuel price/tax situation distorts the relative costs in favor of diesel buses and against electric rail. As the $1.00 price suggests, SEPTA is exempt from motor fuel taxes on the diesel and gasoline it uses, but there are no tax exemptions on electricity used by SEPTA for traction power and our utility costs and taxes are high around here.

There's the first point to make in any political attempt to deal with SEPTA's costs/funding----- Ask the question why a government agency pays taxes (back to that same government) on electric power when it doesn't pay taxes on petrolium based fuel?

Well you could also ask why a good chunk of Amtrak's federal subsidy (and a lesser amount of SEPTA's funding) has to go right back to Washington as payroll taxes (Railroad Retirement).

The railroad industry is unique in having to bear the entire burden of its retiree costs. The auto industry, for example, also has a high proportion of retirees because productivity increased so much, but workers in younger, growing industries (tech, for example) subsidize the declining industries' retiree costs through Social Security.

The passenger railroads come off worst in the deal because they have a better balance between workers and retirees, yet they have to pay the same payroll taxes as the freight railroads with their large retiree base.

The railroad industry is unique in having to bear the entire burden of its retiree costs.

Really? Then I must wonder why I have been paying exhorbinate amounts of my hard earned money into tier I and tier II every week?

It's not a free ride, and the railroad is not paying the "entire cost" of our retirement.

Let's swing this back on to the topic of Route 15, shall we?

Anyone know why there are a slew of PCCs sitting rotting near the impound lot on Wisahickon Ave?

queenlnr8 wrote:Anyone know why there are a slew of PCCs sitting rotting near the impound lot on Wisahickon Ave?

The reason is the bus-only mindset that pervades SEPTA. The less equipment that is available for restoration and recycling, the easier it is to point to the cost of new vehicles and say, "Look, it'll be a lot cheaper just to shift some buses off Route XYZ instead of buying new trolleys." SEPTA has in some cases sold usable vehicles to other systems that restored them (see examples from SF Muni at http://www.phillytrolley.org/muni.html), and in at least one incident actually torched a car or cars that a rail museum was attempting to purchase.

At least by my reading of the situation, it's not likely the PCC-II's would exist if the city hadn't held SEPTA's feet to the fire about restoring rail service on Route 15. That makes the cars an aberration in SEPTA's bustitutional worldview. From our standpoint a happy aberration, but an exception nonetheless.

TR-00 wrote:

The railroad industry is unique in having to bear the entire burden of its retiree costs.

Really? Then I must wonder why I have been paying exhorbinate amounts of my hard earned money into tier I and tier II every week?

It's not a free ride, and the railroad is not paying the "entire cost" of our retirement.

Sorry if I was misunderstood. In "industry" I was including workers as well as the company. The point is that auto workers (and their employers) don't have to pay the additional taxes, even though they also have a high retiree/worker ratio: workers in younger industries subsidize their industries through Social Security.

I just saw a PCC car headed south on 40th Street near Market.
Not that I'm displeased...but what's the deal? Is Septa testing them on routes other than Rt 15?

Urban D Kaye wrote:I just saw a PCC car headed south on 40th Street near Market.
Not that I'm displeased...but what's the deal? Is Septa testing them on routes other than Rt 15?

It was probably coming back to Elmwood from Route 15 testing.

Speaking of testing, I saw 2326 being tested on Island Av yesterday.

I'd like to get some early pix of the PCC's. Anybody know a good time and place to camp out and wait for one ?

kevikens wrote:I'd like to get some early pix of the PCC's. Anybody know a good time and place to camp out and wait for one ?

Apparently they were running today...there's a photo on Railpictures.net of a new PCC taken today at 49th Street. But my first sighting was on a Friday and my second on a Tuesday. So it's a crapshoot.

As for location, the Girard Ave Bridge is always nice. I also caught some pix at the Girard College loop track.

Instruction cars are out daily, Monday through Friday, departing Elmwood after the morning peak, via the diversion route to Lancaster then to Girard. Both LRVs and PCC2s are used. Training on the east end resumes this week, followng City street street repairs at 9th & Girard.