Return of Daily LD Service

electricron wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:33 pm There are always valid reasons why Amtrak does what it does. After 50 years, give them some credit that they know what they are doing.

Ron, I do think your captioned thought should ring loud and clear with the traveling and the railfan communities- especially the latter.

Amtrak has fifty years of expertise in their time books of operating passenger trains as efficiently as possible given the constraints placed upon them. Their cadre of managers are not the "incompetents" that some, largely at other sites, address them to be. I've known "enough of 'em along the way" to know the first is quite the case and that the latter is simply not.

electricron wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:33 pm

jp1822 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:09 pm There seems to be a couple of options for the Superliner LD train sets:

1) Reverse the consist and install the plug (which Amtrak does have) on the upper level door of the first coach....
2) Leave the baggage car and Superliner Trans Dorm/Sleeper upfront and put regular sleepers on the rear (that was done for a few summer seasons on the CA Zephyr).

As Mr. Norman puts forth - there's absolutely no reason to have the premium paying passengers - THOUSANDS of dollars a night on long distance sleepers - listening to the horn all night. And it is blasted all the way from Chicago to Pittsburgh especially on the Capitol Limited. Had that one first hand with this new Capitol Limited consist. And with the current Capitol Limited's pathetic consist, there's absolute no reason why the two coaches and two sleepers couldn't be swapped......
Don't get it.

I think too many are complaining abut the locomotive's horn and not enough are complaining about the squeaking and rattling coming from the room and roomette doors. The tooting of the horn can be romantic and are infrequent, but the rattling and squeaking from the doors are irritating and constant. Luckily, placing something in the door helps in reducing the loudness of the rattling, but that is something passengers should not have to do.

As for changing the order of the consist of the Superliner trains, how do you plan to do that? Just about every train is configured differently as is. The Zephyr can have coaches added midway over the divide and in Reno, the Builder is split and reformed in Spokane, the Eagle and Sunset Limited are split and reformed in San Antonio, the Chief can have coaches added in Kansas City, the All of them can have private cars added to the end of the trains in many locations along their routes.

A simple fact remains, it is far easier a task to accomplish adding and removing a coach car from the end of a train than from the front of the train. There are always valid reasons why Amtrak does what it does. After 50 years, give them some credit that they know what they are doing.

I also doubt Amtrak owns enough plugs to use on the six (6) trainsets for just one named train like the Zephyr, much less enough plugs for all Superliner trains.

I will admit that this is a topic that is likely unsolvable, as too many riders and supporters of Amtrak have differences of opinion on placement and how to operate etc. Typically I don't let this affect my travels when I do take the train - be it on overnight LD routes or in business class. The few times where it did drive me completely batty - when onboard the Capitol Limited from Chicago to Washington DC. Only one (1) P42 and the sleeper I was in (only one in the consist) was smack up against the P42 locomotive. Even with a roomette in the middle of the car - it was bad.

And yes, one would think Amtrak has 50 years of institutional knowledge behind it, but they've also LOST a lot of good people. No doubt that some of that knowledge has been lost.

Until the tri-weekly schedules were put in place last October, the Superliner consists were pretty much uniform in terms of sleeper up front and coaches on the rear, except Sunset and Empire Builder consists. Here are the Superliner based LD trains that were pretty much consistent PRIOR to Oct 2020 (going tri-weekly). The number of sleepers and coaches may have varied, but sleepers in front, coaches in rear.

- Coast Starlight
- City of New Orleans
- Texas Eagle,
- Southwest Chief
- CA Zephyr (although sometimes flip flopped with sleepers on rear during peak
- Capitol Limited

Restoring to daily schedules - Amtrak invoked some change in consists and actually moved away from more uniform consists, be that as it may. Significant changes to every consist compared to peak season consists and even off-peak consists so far.

Adding cars enroute - that's largely in the past. The Zephyr hasn't had cars added at Reno for nearly 15+ years now. Kansas City, yes Southwest Chief has added/dropped coaches for the run to Chicago more recently. But in Twin Cities, they used to just add the coach right behind the Portland Sleeper. In Jasper, AB VIA Rail used to cut sleeper in/out of the center of the consist. Private cars are very much more restricted these days in their movements, particularly where they can add/drop cars. PVs are always at the rear and they don't allow for passage from private cars to main consist. All of the above trains operated with a Superliner Trans-Dorm sleeper prior to going tri-weekly. Many need the Superliner Trans-Dorm sleepers restored and they could even stay on the front of the train, while main sleepers go to rear. For a few summers the CA Zephyr had its Superliner Trans-Dorm Sleeper on the front, with THREE peak period regular Superliner sleepers on the rear (private cars even attached on the rear in one run I was on - dropped in Denver!).

And, yes the "plugs" are limited and until about two years ago, I never even knew they existed.....

Have bad-ordered sleepers been switched out at Chicago before the train is turned same day - sure (been there, done that, seen that)! Amtrak took a sleeper off the inbound Texas Eagle, and put it on the inbound Empire Builder (subbing for the secondary bad-ordered Seattle sleeper) and sent the consist out by 6:30 pm as the eastbound Capitol Limited. But the same day turns of equipment are largely history. That was done to dumb down the operations a bit and reduce stress for Sunnyside and Chicago yards. Cuts down on efficient use of a given consist, but overall its been a positive return.

I am sure there are ample reasons for where cars are placed in the consist. And typically I could care a less. But as sleeper rates SUBSTANTIALLY increased in the latter part of this year and buffers have decreased (lack of baggage car or Superliner Trans-Dorm) - it has made my head even spin, or at least question where premium paying passengers should be placed......

Eastern LD consists, except Boston section of Lake Shore and sleeper on the NEC are now on the rear.......

Again, it's not an easy answer. Too many with lots of opinions, including even in the Amtrak ranks I am sure.

I think this gets into if you can wye the entire train around.

Big overnight LD endpoints are NOL, LAX, CHI, EMY, SEA, NYP, SAS, WAS, MIA, and BOS. This includes the Night Owl.

Those with wyes or loops "nearby":

• NYP New York Penn at Sunnyside (loop)
• WAS Washington at Ivy City (wye)
• BOS Boston at MBTA Cabot Yard (loop)
• CHI Chicago at the Amtrak Car Yard and UP's Train Yard (wyes)
• LAX Los Angeles has Mission Junction (numerous wyes and an adjacent loop)
• SAS San Antonio has a UP rail yard
• NOL New Orleans has a wye right outside the station.
• MIA Miami has a loop

AT a stretch:

• SEA Seattle would have to wye at BNSF Argo Yard (cue Leslie Fish's "Banned from Argo")
• EMY Emeryville would have to break up the train to do it at the nearby Amtrak yard, or go all the way down to San Jose Dridon.

So you can have a consistent consist, with a buffer baggage, a crew sleeper, a few regular sleepers, diner, cafe, and coaches. You can wye the entire train. But... what's stopping Amtrak? It's probably cheaper to double up the engines, opposite facing, and just run the engines around... and at terminal style stations (WAS, BOS) just switch to another engine consist because that engine's now at the rear and you're not doing push/pull.

Unless they're not replacing the P40/P42 series just yet.

I wonder if any experiments have been done to deflect the horn noise to where it is actually needed . i.e out to the sides as well as to the front of the locomotive.
Of course , one could actually question the effectiveness of the horn in the first place. With boom boxes and earpods , 1/2 of vehicle drivers probably don't hear it anyway . I would think more strobe lights , warning lights would be more effective anyway .

David Benton wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:59 pmI wonder if any experiments have been done to deflect the horn noise to where it is actually needed . i.e out to the sides as well as to the front of the locomotive.

Don't they already do that? Most lead engines have a cab end that is always leading. Mount the horn facing forward and the sound goes in the right direction (ahead of the train, hopefully in a cone where drivers approaching the tracks can hear it). Some sound will be heard in the opposite direction and it needs to be heard so the crew can hear any horn signals given (such as the 'two short" before moving the consist from a stop).

If you think the train horn is bad perhaps they could face the engine toward the passenger cars.

Use noise cancelling technology to make the horn more directional? And to cancel the noise inside.

David Benton wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:59 pm I wonder if any experiments have been done to deflect the horn noise to where it is actually needed . i.e out to the sides as well as to the front of the locomotive.
Of course , one could actually question the effectiveness of the horn in the first place. With boom boxes and earpods , 1/2 of vehicle drivers probably don't hear it anyway . I would think more strobe lights , warning lights would be more effective anyway .

The horn is already sounding out towards the front, but because sound radiates in 3D, you're getting echoes and you're traveling through the sound anyway. Physics.

That said, if someone's grooving to the beat, drowning out everything else, and is distracted enough to smash through a crossing gate, ain't no amount of lights flashing or whatnot is going to stop them killing themselves. The only thing that'll harsh that musical buzz they're under is physical force... and unfortunately a train (getting) in the way counts. Once again, physics.

Sound is a wave. Sound cancellation is applying the inverse wave to cancel the sound. (They've talked about using this technology on automobiles as using less energy than a muffler). Then it would matter less the order of the train cars.

BandA wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:27 pm Sound is a wave. Sound cancellation is applying the inverse wave to cancel the sound. (They've talked about using this technology on automobiles as using less energy than a muffler). Then it would matter less the order of the train cars.

There's no way to perfectly cancel out a sound besides not making it in the first place. You can get the effect with headphones because they only need to cancel the sound out at a point (your ear) but you can't do it to an area larger than a point, and it still generates a "white noise" that some people find nauseating.

A "blast" from Andrew Selden. It appears the Chief with its shortened seven car consist is the target:

http://corridorrail.com/u-s-amtrak-sabo ... r-failure/

Fair Use:

Under federal (and many states’) law it is a crime, often a felony, to sabotage or tamper with railroad property with the intent to (or with reckless disregard towards) causing damage or injury to persons or property.

But apparently it is perfectly fine for management of a railroad to operate it in a manner that stifles its economic prospects and prevents growth.

Interesting to hear calls of conspiracy - but there are also reports of major personnel shortages at the crew bases. So the question becomes - is there a conspiracy going on or is there a major shortage of OBS crew/personnel along with a desire to complete refresh work on Superliner equipment? I won’t conclude one way or the other - but I find it hard to believe if there was an enormous conspiracy going on that they would debut a restored traditional dining that by all accounts (and my own experience) superior to what was available pre pandemic.

Observed "a grand slam" today.

#3(9) OT
#4(7) 50ML
#5(9) OT
#6(7) 65ML

As Mr. Selden notes in his "blast" 310XX Coach Bag were in all of the consists. I must wonder if this is done to avoid assigning two Coach SA's.

Also #3 had two bi-Level Metrolink cars "on the head", so "Private Room" passengers got a reprieve from "the music" on this journey.

Otherwise same consists as through the Summer peak.

Personnel shortages? Does anyone wonder why Amtrak did not hire enough new on board personnel early this year ?. We need answers from anyone who was in the new hire classes. Why didn't Amtrak run two classes a day ? Such as 0600 -1400 and 1400 - 2200. * IMHO personnel shortages now has no excuse.

There are definite reports of staffing issues- they've gotten back everyone they can - all the crew bases out west have chef, LSA - diner, food specialist, coach attendent, etc. jobs posted to the outside world try to fill things in. This is not limited to Amtrak - the pandemic and related assistance have created a challenging situation in the service industry - help is few and far between. Remember also this is a closed union shop. You cannot be posting these jobs externally until you exhaust all other options - so the process takes time.

Effective September there are openings for OBS trainees in BOS, NY, and WASH. You ask me way too late.